Mercedes Sprinter Turbo – Limp Home (LHM) Diagnostics.
You will probably read a great deal on the internet regarding the issues surrounding your Sprinter lapsing into limp-home mode without showing any EML (Engine Management Warning Lamp). I have also read these web entries with interest and have concluded that there is a lot of confusion around what exactly is going on so I have decided to add my own input so that hopefully you can sort out this irritating and troublesome issue.
The early Sprinters with vac controlled turbo actuators are quite basic in operation and there are only a few elements to the control loop. These can all be checked out systematically and the faulty element identified and replaced/repaired.
Let me try and explain in basic terms how the turbo control system works so that you may get a better understanding of what is going on:
VNT Turbo and Vacuum Actuator (sometimes known as a VGT Turbo)
Sprinter Vacuum Boost Actuator
The turbo itself is a Garrett VNT variable vane turbo, the details of which you will find elsewhere on this site. ( http://www.mercedes.gen.in/WP35/diesel-mercedes-sprinter-turbo-rebuild/ ) It is controlled by a vacuum actuator that moves a set of mechanical vanes within the turbo to vary the turbo charge rate – there is no conventional dump valve on these turbos and many times you will wrongly read people refer to it as the ‘dump valve actuator’. The charge actuator resides bolted to the turbo body on an extended bracket, its push rod connects to a small lever that enters into the turbo body casting, moving a small lever shaped rather like a dog-bone. This lever engages in an annular ring that in turn interlaces with a set of similar levers attached to each variable vane. A single action of pushing or pulling the actuator rod moves all the vanes inside the turbo in unison, developing more or less turbo charge dependant on its position. Inspect the external lever that the actuator push rod attaches to, ensure this moves smoothly as you accelerate / rev the engine. Look for any misalignment of the lever throughout its stroke as it passes through the turbo body, as the bearing surfaces on this shaft can wear or oval allowing the internal lever to ride over the annular ring inside resultantly not moving any of the vanes. A quick and dirty test to indicate any problems with the variable vanes is to remove the air box or air filter housing and listen as the engine is revved. Once the engine is started, the vac actuator rod should move down slowly as vac builds, this in turn should apply force to the lever moving the vanes into a fully charged position. As you rev the engine you should hear a very loud and strong tornado type howl from the air box, if you do not, and the actuator has moved pulling the lever downward there is a chance that the turbo itself is faulty. Normal operation is as follows. Stationary engine, rod fully extended, vanes in no charge position. Start engine, rod pulls lever downward slowly, vanes full charge position. Rev engine, rod moves in and out during the rev cycle, vanes apply variable charge through rev cycle – Audible howl from air box.
Turbo Actuator Electric Vacuum Control Valve
Sprinter Boost Actuator Valve
If the vacuum actuator is not pulling down once the engine is started check for vac at the pipe, if vac is present, the actuator could be seized or faulty (internal diaphragm split) rectify this. If you follow the vac pipe back from the turbo you will see that it goes to an actuator that is bracket mounted on the inner wing below the air box at the back of the off side headlamp (UK Vehicles) This can be pulled upward off its bracket mounting rubber and moved to a better place for visual inspection. This electrical valve actuator is popularly at fault with the Mercedes Sprinter model and your dealer will have sold hundreds of this item over time. It has a single two wire electrical plug connected to it and three rubber pipes; in some cases its pipe locations are even marked: IN – OUT – VENT. Check vac supply to this device observing and rectifying any split or leaking pipework. Once good vacuum supply has been determined, with the ignition off (no power to the valve and no vacuum present) the route of vacuum should be blocked by the valve to the turbo actuator. The turbo actuator supply pipe should be vented to atmosphere via the electric control valve to a small filter (looks like in-line fuel filter) mounted above the engine and sitting by the side of the brake servo.
Turning on the ignition places a constant 12v to the electrical controlled vac actuator valve, (This voltage pulses during normal engine operation) vac should now be routed from actuator valve inlet to the turbo actuator (outlet) and the vent should now be blocked. Vacuum switching can be verified by using a hand vac pump (Mytivac or similar) Simply sucking on the pipes will not prove anything, as there is an internally sprung pressure control diaphragm inside the electronic valve so that operation will not occur until sufficient vac is present – the only thing you will achieve by sucking with your mouth – is a red face! An old Mercedes engineer once shared that there are two versions of the electric vacuum valve available, one with a blue cap and the other with a black cap, only the matching type should be used as a replacement. I cannot verify this information as I have only ever seen the black cap type, but best practice would suggest replacing the unit only with the correct version to be 100% on the safe side.
Relevant Service Manual Extract View Here
ECU Control
The ECU control loop circuit is quite simple for turbo actuation. The electric vac valve is controlled by simply switching the 12v supply on and off by the ECU, this is called PWM or Pulse Width Modulation – it’s easy to test this control voltage is present with a volt meter at the valve electrical plug/connector with ignition on. If no control voltage is present look for a break in the wiring from the valve to the ECU. Trace back the wires to the ECU connector and prove continuity exists from the ECU connector to the valve. Pin outs and wire colours are given in the included diagrams. There has been commonly reported breaks in the valve supply wiring as it is routed in front of the intercooler behind the grille and also in the area of the near side headlamp where the loom kinks back into the engine bay around the radiator. The wire colours to look for here are white and blue (on my model) but please check the included diagram/chart for correct model notation.
Relevant Service Manual Extract View Here – Wiring Identification at ECU – Turbo Boost
ECU General
Remove the ECU from its slide tray under the passenger dash area beneath the glove box area. It is quite common for the bulkhead grommet to displace where the main ECU loom is routed to the engine bay allowing water to enter and run down onto the ECU connectors. Remove all the connector attachments to the ECU and check for pin corrosion, if this exists clean up both the pin and connectors as best you can. Importantly – reseat the bulkhead grommet.
Charge Pressure Sensor / Intake Air Temperature Sensor
Sprinter Boost Pressure Sensor Location
There are two sensors in the control loop, a pressure sensor and an air temperature sensor. They are identified as one having three or sometimes four wires (commonly three) this is the charge pressure sensor. The second is intake air temperature sensor having two wires. They are both located in the upper section of the intercooler discharge hose, on the near side of the vehicle (UK versions) on the hard moulded plastic section of ductwork before the final supply hose to the inlet manifold, just to the side of the radiator. The pressure sensor is attached to the housing with two small bolts. The connections to this device are again simple to understand and test. One of the three wires is ground, the second is 5v+ve supply and the other connection gives an approximate variable voltage output +0.2v to +5v referenced to ground dependant on charge pressure. The other sensor (air temperature) is found slightly lower down the plastic section of pipework, this measures charge intake air temperature. This has a two wire connection that is connected across an internal thermistor bead that feeds back a change in resistance value relative to air temperature inside the inlet pipework, the two connected wires are fed through the bulkhead, directly back to the ECU along with those from the pressure sensor. The temperature sensor should measure between 400 and 500 Kilo-Ohms out of circuit. In the information given it is possible to plot the output from the charge pressure sensor to give an indication of charge pressure in the system, from this you can derive if it functioning correctly or if to suspect it as faulty. If you need to measure what is going on in-circuit without disconnecting these components, take a number of drapery pins and push them through the insulation into the conductor cores of the required wires thus allowing you to connect a test meter and take measurements without the need to disconnect or cut any wires.
Relevant Service Manual Extract View Here – Sprinter Boost Pressure Sensor
You can disconnect any of these components without lighting the EML warning lamp as no indication of a fault is given by the removal of any of these components from circuit. That is why the dreaded turbo limp home fault often occurs without any indication on the dashboard.
Rev Limiter Function
Normally Sprinter engine revs are ECU limited whilst stationary to around 3500 rpm. Depressing the clutch and then further releasing it should now allow revs to increase above this range to the rev limit. If there is a limp home fault, engine revs will not progress above 3000 rpm even when dipping/releasing the clutch when stationary. Once the fault is rectified the rev range and limiter function as described above will return to normal. It is a good idea to check out both of the necessary brake and clutch pedal position switch sensors (on the pedal box above the clutch and brake) and where possible always get hold of a compatible diagnostic code reader as often faults are stored and not indicated with a EML lamp.
I hope this helps you to better understand the function of the turbo boost circuit on early model Mercedes Sprinters and that it assists you to fault find and rectify any problems you may have.
2011sprinter boost fault p226300 Runs well for about 15 miles fault is worse when hot
Hi Ian,
This is a generic fault code that tells of Boost pressure ‘not being what is expected’! Pretty open ended really. It is usually accompanied by other more detailed dealer level codes that allow you (hopefully) to make a better job of diagnosis. The causes of this code can be numerous, anything from EGR valve sticking, turbo actuators sticking when hot (common and known fault on NCV3 Sprinters – A later modified turbo was made available by MB), blocked or restricted exhaust flow, DPF blockage and failed re-gen/high ash load etc. So as you can see for the most part it is a very difficult code to analyse, what I would suggest is a comprehensive read with a dealer compatible diagnostic tool – either from a dealer or good independent garage that specialises in MB Sprinters. It will save you a fortune in the long run as some of the parts that could be giving issue are expensive and to change them on a whim would be the wrong thing to do.
I hope that gives you a little direction.
Best regards
Steve
Boost pressure fault code 9073 have checked for leaks and fit a boost sensor goes to limp mode when hot switch off and take key out resets
Hi Ian,
I dont recognise that code at all, what code reader did you use to extract it?. As far as I am aware it is not in any Powertrain list specific to the Sprinter (see here) so I am a little confused. Also what model and year is the vehicle as there are known faults on different models.
All the best
Steve
Having kindly helped me out with advice regarding my ABS warning light on my 1996 T1N 2.9 chassis unit which happens to have a large Class A German built motor home on top I have a question regarding exhaust systems for a T1N.
I have a Haynes manual for the T1N and that barely mentions the exhaust system and Europarts shows a system where the tail pipe exits at the rear.
Mine however exits half way down the near side ( my Hymer is LHD). There is a large exhaust box underneath and then the exhaust pipe turns 90 degrees left, loops over the prop shaft and pokes itself slightly out from the vertical of the body side.
My T1N has just passed its MOT and there was no problems with emissions or the exhaust. However, the main box is somewhat rusty and as I am about to set sail for Calais in 10 days time for an 8 month tour of Europe and including Croatia, I thought I might replace the exhaust “just in case”.
Question: Where would I get a replacement exhaust system from and is my side discharge exhaust a one off, or can it be bought off the shelf. I assume the delights of Kwik Fit do not await, so where do the more heavy duty exhausts get fitted? I am Crawley (Gatwick) based at present.
Hi Graham.
If it were me I would not bother to source in the UK. These vans and their derivatives are popular all over the continent and the spares network will be more attuned to Lhd than we are. The side discharge exhaust is common however they usually do not cross the prop and outturn 90 degrees to exit on the UK offside. I am pretty sure that the box will be a standard mid discharge system maybe turned over and extended. Have it repaired as and when you need. There are ingenious craftsmen peppered all over Europe who are more than capable of getting you sorted probably for half the price than here. Probably done with a genuine smile too.
A custom made job in the UK is probably best done by these folks, stainless steel would be a once made thing to last for ever. They do a while you wait service and have dealers all over London area. Power flow
All the best, have a great time,
Steve
Many thanks for that!! I will take your advice.
The issue of which side the exhaust appears on is really a product of the continental build. The A Class motorhomes built on the continent have the main access door on the continental “near side” which is of course the opposite of the UK. As my Hymer is German built it is LHD and the main habitation door is on the opposite side. The current exhaust system vents on the opposite side to the habitation door which is why it crosses the prop shaft.
As you rightly point out, I would be more likely to find a “LHD exhaust system” on the continent!!
One of the products of getting old is that the old grey cells are not as sharp as they once were! Still, 68 is the new 40!!! or so I am assured.
Many thanks.
Steve
Really nice to have some of this explained, my son has a 313CDI 2010 mecerdes Sprinter and just as you say it just goes on to limp mode with out any warning, usually when driving down the motorway at a steady 70 mph with no change in throttle position. Having looked at you diagram we appear to have two sevo units, one on top which appears to go into the engine block and one on the bottom opposite end which appears to go into the turbo unit. We have been told that it is the turbo vanes sticking, but this then clears its selve and runs fine for a couple of days with no problem. We have checked the fault code which is 2263 which is the generic fault code for low booster pressure, there are no leaks on any hose connectors so it does appear to be the turbo vanes sticking. if none of the sensor fault codes appear are we correct in assuming thay are all ok and it is a faulty turbo unit ?
Many thanks
Colin
Hi Colin,
There is a common known problem with the later turbo actuators sticking when warm and this is usually when at motorway speeds. What it normally causes is over-boost and drops into limp mode. Mercedes produced a modified turbo unit that does not suffer from this problem but you will only land one of these if you get a replacement from a networked MB dealer. There are a few other areas that you can check, the inlet manifold inserts into the plastic, break free and prevent the inlet manifold sealing correctly. Escape of boost pressure from here as you probably will have read will result in some oil staining and can be seen with careful inspection. (Unsure of what exact engine config you have there but there are some fitted plastic inlet flaps, in some models these are called swirl-flaps) these linked flaps have been known to stick and cause errors if fitted as they get gummed up within the inlet manifold.
I am assuming that you have cleaned the EGR valve, as this is probably the most common problem with this age range/model of Sprinter. Limp home EGR caused ‘bogging down’ will usually be accompanied by black smoke from the exhaust and would often happen more on acceleration than the constant speed you describe.
Finally there could be an issue with the DPF being blocked or below optimal with regard to gas flow rate, especially as you see the issue when cruising at relative high speed. Has the van’s DPF been seen to ‘re-gen’ as per the handbook or could there be a problem here? Although you are seeing boost pressure codes, these could be caused by ineffective spooling of the exhaust side of the turbo, generating the required boost on the inlet.
What you can do if you suspect the actuators/vanes are sticking is release the circlip that holds the actuator rod to the turbo vane lever and operate them by hand and see if you can feel any resistance to movement, though some of the stiction is usually in the higher heat ranges of operation. Ultimately if the sticking is in the turbo itself, you will have to either strip and clean the internals of the unit or replace it with the new modified assembly.
I do recommend that you get the code read with a dedicated MBStar diagnostic reader and ask for the print out. This will hopefully give you a better drill down as to the actual cause of the issue other than the generic – ‘boost deviates from what is expected’ general code.
I hope that helps and offers some more suggestions to look at.
All the best
Steve
Hi Steve, I have a 2004 311cdi sprinter, I am no mechanic, so please bear with me.
It started (my problem) when I started up my van, and went to drive away, it felt like my revs were too low, and the van was vibrating.
when I set off driving, it felt like my turbo had stopped working, and I had to give it more gas.
the van is still driving, allbeit a bit sluggishly, and then today on the motorway, the EGR light came on.
now to be honest, I only know what an egr valve is, after reading some of your posts above, but am I right in assuming that this is all tied to the same problem? And if so please, what is the solution?
Also, is this an expensive fix, and does it need to be put on a diagnostic machine in a garage, to fix it?
Sorry if that was a bit long winded, would appreciate your help, mark.
Hi Mark,
There is a chance that your model being 2004 will not have an EGR (only some models have this fitted) so best be sure it has one. The light you have in dash is probably the engine management light or EDC lamp. As far as I am aware there is no dedicated EGR light.
The symptoms you describe however could be the EGR valve sticking open (if fitted) or more commonly a split or leak in one of the turbo charge air hoses as this too would cause an engine management lamp to illuminate. Details of this problem you will find widely publicised and sometimes the area of the leak is indicated by oily deposits around either the pipe joint that is leaking or the split crack in the hose work. What I would be tempted to do is see if you can visually see the problem with a torch, by inspecting the hoses and intercooler. If things are not obvious go and get a diagnostic read form an independent Sprinter repair shop, this will help narrow down the problem and they can also confirm the existence of the EGR valve on your model.
I hope this helps.
All the best
Steve
This is going to sound a bit weird but my T1N Sprinter groaned at me whilst sitting at some traffic lights on the Antwerp Ring Road on Wednesday!
My Sprinter is a 1996 412D 125bhp Sprinter chassis unit with a Hymer motor home body bolted on top.
On Wednesday we made the ferry crossing from Dover to Calais and was surprised to make it out of Calais port area without difficulty, but bus loads of French riot police probably helped!
All went well till the Antwerp ring road at 4.30pm (local) where the traffic was either stationary or a very slow crawl. Outside temperature was 26c and I was running the vehicle aircon which had been re-gassed about 2 weeks ago. Everything appeared to be normal, no warning lights on or flickering and the cooling temperature gauge was way short of overheating and was about 65% of the gauge “bottom to top” range. The Rolling Stones were Painting it Black, when suddenly there was a low moaning sound whilst the engine was ticking over. I could feel a slight vibration through the brake pedal. The moan stopped when I blipped the gas pedal and after about 20 seconds it returned for about 5 seconds before ending on its own.
I have heard a similar sound on a Merc boat engine in a 40ft twin engine slow speed diesel boat where a pressure valve was slow to open and close.
The engine is using Castrol Fully Synthetic oil to the latest 229.52. Probably a bit OTT but my Smart CDi uses the same oil and I tow that on a trailer behind the Hymer. Last filter and oil change was 4 weeks ago.
I had experienced no performance issues during the 390 mile run, so the groaning may have been a one off cos it was warm, or that my beloved Sprinter did not like Mick Jaggers singing!!!
I thought however that you might have a more technical perspective!!
Covey
Hi Graham,
Glad to hear the crossing went OK. The noise often heard like a low groan felt through the brake pedal is when the foot brake is being applied to a point that is sufficient to allow the very slightest rolling of the vehicle. Lets say it was a dry warm day, you were in traffic on a downward incline with your foot pressed hard on the brake pedal. It is often possible to back off the brake with your foot, a fraction at a time, until the vehicle starts to move forward – so so slowly you will hardly detect it doing so. The brake friction material then groans very deeply against the discs – almost like a low frequency vibration, deep and as you say groaning. I imagine its the pads chattering in the calipers and proves quite nicely that the slides are all loose and not seized. You can get it with one wheel or with micro pedal adjustment you can get them to both sing and then you get a harmonised Groan! This can sometimes happen also when the handbrake is applied to the point of not being just factionally enough to lock the wheels in a similar manner. To be honest, its usually the front discs that are the groaners. Once you master the art of making it ‘do it’ (strangely pleasing to do in Automatics) its almost kind of a ‘fun’ thing to do to make it do the noise! – I didn’t really say that!
It may not be that, but most likely is. Have fun,
All the best
Steve
Many thanks for that.
Got a 313 sprinter 2011 and will not go above 3000 revs.When in low gears second and third there is very little power with excelerator,what is the fault.
Other problem is it has done nearly 400,000 miles and smokes when starting in morning then disappears after a few miles as though it is getting to much fuel.
Can you tell me the problem.
Hi Chris,
The limp mode could actually be caused by a number of things and to stab a guess would be foolish without a few more clues. You can do all the practical things like check turbo hoses for leaks especially around the intercooler, oil staining being the tell tale of boost escape. There are a number of common issues with the NCV3 Later model Sprinter and they are: Leaking inlet manifold (boost Leak) due to threaded inserts pulling out from the plastic composite moulding, EGR problems either sticking or failed in an open position, dumping most of the turbo boost pressure straight out of the exhaust. Plugged DPF or CAT restricting flow of exhaust gasses effectively stifling the engine of power or sticking external turbo actuators/internal vanes of the turbo’s. The best bet if you don’t find anything on your visual inspection is to get a code read from either an MB dealer or independent specialist with the proper scan-tool and get a written list of the resolved fault codes. This should guide you with a little more certainty as to where the problem lies.
I think at 400k miles the cold starting smoke could be blow-by oil burning from the bores/rings due to normal wear, once the engine is warm the rings/piston etc. will expand to be a little tighter fit and the smoking reduces. Once the engine is warm, pull the pipe off the oil separator on the rocker cover and see if you have a lot of crank case pressure/fumes. I am guessing the oil separator will be oily and when you pull the pipe, combustion gasses will be clearly seen as light smoking puffing on each beat of the engine. If all looks ok here, then sort out the boost problem first, whatever it may be – it could be connected!
Hope this helps,
All the best
Steve
Hi Steve,Took it to a local car clinic in Aberdeen and they put it on their engine management checker,
The advisory notes were,
P2263 Boost pressure regulation intermittent
P2251 connection for the signal return live of oxygen sensor 1 bank 1 open circuit intermittent
P2627 connection for trimming resistor of 02 sensor 1 short circuit to ground
P2066 cylinder 2/1/3 has malfunction intermittent
That what came up on their computer.It is going into the merc garage next Tuesday for them to checkout as the mechanic said the 2263 code is the most popular code that comes up and it could be a few different things.What do you thing Steve.
Chris
Hi Chris,
2263 relates to a general code, where the boost pressure deviates from what is expected by the ECU. 2251 is O2 Sensor Negative Current Control Circuit/Open Bank1 Sensor1, 2627 O2 Sensor Pumping Current Trim Circuit Low Bank1 Sensor1, 2066 Mass Air Flow Sensor Plausibility Air Mass Too High. At first glance I would be looking at a faulty Oxygen sensor or the wiring to it, infront of the cat in the exhaust line. If this was incorrectly measuring it would upset the mixture of air/diesel and throw everything off with regard to performance, boost etc and would for sure give a limp home, limited performance situation. This would be my guess at what the dealer should be doing for you Tuesday. be interesting to see what they say!
All the best
Steve
Hi steve
You are brilliant with your work
I got srinter 211 cdi 53 plate
Can’t be noticed when empty but in loaded situation unless and until RPM crosses 2000 .it does not boost….while climbing hill if you go to 3rd gear then it is hard to bring engine speed over 2000Rpm and speed will not boost..computer dont show any fault code and no light in the van console…can u guide me plz
Hi Ahmad,
This may be a leak some where in the turbo pipework. Inspect the rubber hoses from the output of the turbo to the intercooler then onward to the inlet manifold. If there is any black oily joints visible there is a good chance there is a boost leak. Remove the hose and clean off the oil and remake the connection with a new hose clip. Make sure the actuator arm on the turbo is free and not sticking, also check the vacuum supply to the boost actuator. If you have fitted a new battery recently make sure you have not knocked off the brown vacuum hose that goes to the flap mechanism on the heater box (under bonnet, right hand side looking in, above battery) as if this is disconnected, will affect turbo vacuum control as will any other leaks or splits in the vac lines. Take out the air box and check the condition of all the vacuum pipework around the boost control solenoid beneath.
Hope this helps
Steve
Hi Steve ,
I was driving my 2015 sprinter motor home with a 188 hp turbo mb engine up a steep hill and it went into limp mode , no error and when I turned around (very dangerously on mountain road) it when back to normal for the ride home . I have taken it to several diesel mechanics and they just scratch there head with no error codes they don’t know where to look. Help me Steve .
Bruce
Hi Bruce,
There are not many things that cause limp home under extreme load (steep hill) that go away when engine load is within more acceptable operating limits. There could be a slight leak on a turbo hose connection, brake lamp or brake lamp switch fault or poor fuel delivery. If we discount the first, and second , is there any chance that the steep hill was with camber? Maybe with a not so full tank of fuel? It could have just been one of those winding roads uphill that caused a ‘million to one chance’ very temporary fuel starvation or ‘gulp’ of air from the tank in the line, this would have almost immediately dropped the pressure in the low pressure (LP) fuel line and flagged limp home. Once the fuel pressure returned, all would return to normal. The recorded error, though not indicated by illuminating any fault lamp on the dash, should have been logged in what is called ‘pending’ codes and should have really remained there to be read. However – there is a chance if it only happened the once and only once, the recorded pending fault code was cleared/erased once the ignition key was recycled.
Without further fault finding this is the only logical explanation I can come up with – does it fit?
All the best
Steve
dear steve
the website is very useful and if you can make an application as a development will be nice. because most of the people those days using phones.
I’m looking to purchase 2006 Sprinter motorhome somewhere in the Pacific Northwest. Or california. I drive a 2006 sprinter for work and have 400,000kms on it with just 2 turbo actuators gone and a glowplug module. It’s been a great van! Can you recommend a motorhome model with this engine?
Hi there Stojan,
Motorhomes are not my field I afraid, however if you ask the question on the Sprinter Forum here: http://sprinter-source.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=5 there is a great bunch of guys who will for sure be able to help you out.
All the best
Steve
I tested for voltage at the sensor. And have 10.5 volts is this enough to cause the sensor to not work or is the sensor bad. When I plug the vent tube with my finger it begins to spool can I bypass this sensor in any way?
Hi Ben,
From your description it sounds as if you are referring to the vacuum control solenoid valve (not as you call it in your comment – sensor). If this control valve is passing vac through the vent tube constantly, chances are the valve is faulty and will need replacement. Vac should be switched/routed only to either the turbo actuator or off. The vent pipe/port is to used to vent the remaining vacuum in the actuator to atmosphere when the valve shuts off the vac supply to it, or else it would remain in the same position. Remember this valve is controlled by pulsing the supply voltage (on-off) this is called PWM – Pusle Width Modulation. This commands the vacuum on and off via the valve rapidly, controlling the actuator position and turbo vane angle.
All the best
Steve
Yes the actuator. U are correct. Sorry. Ok. So im guessing when measuring with a multimeter that a reading of about 10.5 is normal beings it’s pulsed as u were saying?
I tried measuring the duty cycle but couldn’t get a reading. I Get 8.5 volts key one I get 10.7 volts with it running. But I tried measuring frequency and percentage but couldn’t get a reading.
Hi Ben,
It is difficult to measure as the on/off pulses are derived from the ECU depending on what position is called for in any given load/rpm combination. You would only measure a change as the engine load altered. At idle the valve should be actuated and fully open transporting vac to the actuator and pulling down the turbo vane arm. If it is not and you have vacuum present at the vent, additionally if when you block this off with a finger you say the actuator retracts and pulls down the turbo lever – then there is most likely a problem in the porting of the valve – as under no condition should vac appear at the vent port! See detail in the sketch below. The internal valve configuration of the solenoid control means the actuator can only switch between vacuum and vent (A and B). Vent should not under normal conditions have any connection to the vac port and have vac present.
This information is outstanding. Thank you!
I’ve recently bought a 1999 2.9 310D LWB (OM602) 230k miles. It has been converted into a motocross race van. I suppose there’s a fair bit of weight with a cooker, fridge, beds, generator, 45 gallon water barrel, bikes, tools etc etc. It runs lovely, there’s no smoke and you can hear a good whistle from the turbo. On the flat it’ll cruise along at 70mph all day long, but when I come to a long hill I’m having to drop down the gears and give it full throttle to keep up the momentum. On some bigger hills I’m down to about 30mph. I’ve never driven a Sprinter before so I’m not sure if this is normal or not. I do know the viscous fan coupling has failed and will be putting another on this weekend. Hopefully that might help restore a bit of power.
Hi Steve,
Sounds like you may have a problem as usually this model is an absolute flyer! Out of curiosity when you turn the key to ign position does the EDC red dash lamp illuminate (self check)? I understand you are not seeing a fault light on the dash or I am pretty sure you would have mentioned it! This check just proves it is working.
There are a number of things that may be causing an issue but as usual it is so much better if you can get someone with some older code reading equipment to read the ECU for fault codes. You may have to find a good independent who works on Sprinters to do this. If I were guessing only, as first ports of call – a change of fuel filter is the first item on the list along with checking for leaks in the induction pipework (usually oil staining on the turbo hoses at the leaking joint is the dead giveaway) It may be the turbo actuator diaphragm is faulty preventing correct turbo actuation – see here or maybe the turbo actuator vacuum control valve (common problem) Your Mercedes dealer will have more of these parts than probably any other over the years.
Also check the air filter as this can cause issues if left unattended – see here To be honest there are many valid causes for the problem you have but usually they illuminate the EDC or engine fault light, that is why I am curious to see if the light glows when you first turn the ignition on during lamp-check. See here, I had this issue with a later model and it disguised a whole load of issues.
If its nothing obvious you must invest in a code read with the right equipment as this will give you a much clearer picture of what the problem is and where it lies.
All the best
Steve
Hi Steve, sorry for the slow reply. I had a look at the weekend. The EDC light does illuminate when the ignition is turned on. The turbo on this model seems to be a traditional turbo with a wastegate? The 5cm(ish) wastegate pipe goes straight into the cold side of the turbo. There is no vacuum feed pipe to the turbo at all. There was a bit of engine oil in the wastegate, but the bearings are fine, there’s no noise or play and the van doesn’t smoke at all. The air filter is almost spotless. I’m at a bit of a loss. Steve
Hi there Steve,
That must be a mechanical injection version not CDI. It could be either a 102 or 120 horsepower model. The reason the EDC lamp is lit will have to be sorted first but if you have the 102 hp version with all your load you may find that its not the rocket the CDI version is. However you will need to find a Mercedes Specialist who can read your vans codes as the equipment required is far removed to that used on the later CDI models. You will need something like Carsoft and the correct interface and cable if you were have a go yourself. Also consider that the axle ratio may be wrong and it has been replaced at some point, you could probably get a number off the diff if you had a good look and reference it from the web.
First port of call is get a read of the faults, it seems you have done the obvious.
Hope this helps, let me know what you find.
All the best
Steve
Hello,
I have a motor home equipped with a 2.7 Liter turbo Mercedes motor, which runs beautifully with only 30,000 miles.
On our last trip I saw for the very first time a warning light I have not seen before.
The symbol “Hi” with the image of the oil spicket came on the dash. It lasts only for a very brief time and goes out. No other obvious changes in the driving pattern otherwise.
In the course of the trip of about 1,700 miles the sign came on several times without any pattern as to road conditions, or outside temperature. At times i did not see the warning for hundreds of miles.
Any idea what this warning is about?
Thank you
Jack
Hi there Jack,
You or whoever slightly overfilled the engine oil. This is a ‘Hi’ oil level warning, as this type of engine is often damaged by overfilling and way high oil levels. I wouldn’t worry as you are just on the limit of the warning being activated, when the oil is cold it is the correct level and as it warms it expands to just trip the oil warning alarm. Obviously check the oil level to be sure and confirm, but that will be the issue – done it myself on my own van a couple of times.
If it continues and the oil level is obviously not in the upper limits of the stick then maybe its a faulty level switch, but this would need a little monitoring on your road trips to prove.
In summary nothing to worry too much about.
All the best
Steve
Hi Steve,
Great read. Very informative. Would most of this also be applicable to a Vito W639 115CDI?
I’ve been having problems with Limp Home/Mode again. Had a problem early this year, it was cured by fitting a new Boost Actuator Valve, great! Now it’s back!?
Some insight:
When I first turn the ignition on – No EML, can rev above 3k Revs.
When I first start the engine – No EML, can rev above 3k Revs.
After about 30 secs to a minute of engine running, whether static or moving – EML comes On, limited to 3k Revs!?
Any thoughts or advice on where to start would be most appreciated!
Cheers,
Dan.
Hi Dan
It could be a number of things, even injector related (not sure how many miles you have on the clock there) Commonly there is and has been issues with EGR valves. Around 2008/2009 there was a recall to exchange the Whaler unit to a modified type as it was at the time prone to failure (sticking open not closing properly). There were a few that escaped the recall, rather like the under body spare wheel carrier cable winch that breaks letting the spare wheel down the road much to the surprise of following motorists – if you have the underslung wheel and are unsure of this being done already then any MB dealer will tell you from their records if the recalls are up to date on your van.
EGR is a common fault and one that can be a simple fix. Sadly you would a code read to drill down a little further as to what the actual fault is but if I were a gambling man this is where I would start.
Hope that helps
All the best
Steve
Hi Steve, thanks for your help.
It’s a 2005 and has 129,000 on the clock. My spare is mounted inside.
I double checked the Clutch In/Clutch Out situation whilst static last night – does this only work if there is NO EML showing? Or, whilst static should I be able to get above 3000rpm even if EML is showing?
I have read that the Actuator Arm/Lever should only move about 1cm/10mm when the engine is started, is this correct?
Without a Code, what would be the first thing you would be checking for EGR wise?
Cheers, Dan.
Hi Dan,
You should be unable to exceed 3000 if EDC lamp is lit. One actuation of the clutch pedal usually allows rev over 3k if working normally, if in Limp then no matter what no revs over 3k. 2005 with no history of EGR replacement this would be my first look-see. Take it off and clean the valve body, make sure it closes correctly. If you try and drive does it smoke a lot (black sooty smoke) Correct on actuator movement, its not a great deal.
May be a fuel pressure related issue and if you have a problem here caused by a duff injector, then it needs sorting pronto as the fuel wash and subsequent overheating of the piston crown below the faulty injector could destroy the engine very rapidly indeed.
Well worth getting it read.
All the best
Steve
Cheers Steve! Thanks for clearing up the Clutch In/Out query and Actuator Arm query.
No history of EGR replacement – Would you be able to post a link showing where the EGR is to be found. How should I clean the Valve Body?
No Black Sooty Smoke, It doesn’t smoke a lot – Sometimes there is a little puff of white/light grey smoke for a second or so when I start here up, or first pull away. It disappears very quickly though.
Tried reading for Codes today with an Autel AL419 – MIL light On, but No Codes listed? So I recorded some Live Data whist Idling – I have pasted Frames 9 & 10 below – Are you able to make any sense of it?
Started recording just before starting engine up until 167 Seconds after engine started – I made a note of when the MIL light came ON – It was on the 9th Frame (or 35 secs since engine start) – There seems to be a very sharp drop in COMMANDED EGR (%) between the 9th Frame and 10th Frame (39 Secs since engine start). Does this mean anything to you?
Thanks for your help, much appreciated! Dan.
———————- 9th FRAME (35 Secs After Engine Start) ———————-
Number of DTCs stored in this ECU 0
Fuel system 1 status–
Fuel System 2 status–
Calculated LOAD Value(%)35.7
Engine Coolant Temperature(¡£C)14
Intake Manifold Absolute Pressure(kPa)100.0
Engine RPM(rpm) 849
Vehicle Speed Sensor(km/h)0
Intake Air Temperature(¡£C)11
Air Flow Rate from Mass Air Flow(g/s)0.00
Absolute Throttle Position(%)4.7
Location of Oxygen SensorsB1S—-B2S—-
OBD requirements to which vehicle is designedNot OBD
Time Since Engine Start(sec)35
Distance Travelled While MIL is Activated(Km)14
Fuel Rail Pressure(kPa)35160
Equivalence Ration (lambda)(Bank 1-Sensor 1)0.000
Oxygen Sensor Voltage (Bank 1-Sensor 1)(V)0.000
Equivalence Ration (lambda)(Bank 1-Sensor 2)0.000
Oxygen Sensor Voltage (Bank 1-Sensor 2)(V)0.000
Commanded EGR(%) 45.9
EGR_Error(%) -100.0
Number of warm-ups since diagnostic trouble codes cleared143
Distance since diagnostic trouble codes cleared(Km)5610
Barometric Pressure(kPa)101
Catalyst Temperature Bank 1,Sensor 1(¡£C)2203.0
Catalyst Temperature Bank 2,Sensor 1(¡£C)2203.0
Control module voltage(V)13.936
Commanded Equivalence Ratio0.999
Ambient air temperature(¡£C)-40
———————- 10th FRAME (39 Secs After Engine Start) ———————-
Number of DTCs stored in this ECU 0
Fuel system 1 status–
Fuel System 2 status–
Calculated LOAD Value(%)31.0
Engine Coolant Temperature(¡£C)14
Intake Manifold Absolute Pressure(kPa)100.0
Engine RPM(rpm) 845
Vehicle Speed Sensor(km/h)0
Intake Air Temperature(¡£C)11
Air Flow Rate from Mass Air Flow(g/s)0.00
Absolute Throttle Position(%)4.7
Location of Oxygen SensorsB1S—-B2S—-
OBD requirements to which vehicle is designedNot OBD
Time Since Engine Start(sec)39
Distance Travelled While MIL is Activated(Km)0
Fuel Rail Pressure(kPa)34720
Equivalence Ration (lambda)(Bank 1-Sensor 1)0.000
Oxygen Sensor Voltage (Bank 1-Sensor 1)(V)0.000
Equivalence Ration (lambda)(Bank 1-Sensor 2)0.000
Oxygen Sensor Voltage (Bank 1-Sensor 2)(V)0.000
Commanded EGR(%) 4.7
EGR_Error(%) -100.0
Number of warm-ups since diagnostic trouble codes cleared143
Distance since diagnostic trouble codes cleared(Km)5610
Barometric Pressure(kPa)101
Catalyst Temperature Bank 1,Sensor 1(¡£C)2203.0
Catalyst Temperature Bank 2,Sensor 1(¡£C)2203.0
Control module voltage(V)13.936
Commanded Equivalence Ratio0.999
Ambient air temperature(¡£C)-40
This driving cycle
MIS() N/A
FUEL() N/A
CCM() N/A
CAT() N/A
HCAT() N/A
EVAP() N/A
AIR() N/A
O2S() N/A
HTR() N/A
EGR() N/A
Modules Present
ID: Protocol
$12: ISO 9141-2
Hi Dan,
This will help you locate the EGR.
Its hard to say if this actuation figure was part of the normal warm up cycle, however whatever it is reporting need not be mechanically what the valve is doing – i.e. sticking open slightly.
All the best
Steve
Cheers Steve!
How should I clean the EGR?
Should I also do any other {Air Filter?…} checks or cleaning?
Sorry (?)… But when you say ‘actuation figure’, are you referring to the ‘Commanded EGR %’ figure? i.e You are saying that the figures may point to the EGR sticking open slightly?
Yes, I read that these figures are WHAT the vehicle computer wants, but NOT necessarily what mechanically is happening. Is this correct?
Many thanks, Dan.
Hi Dan,
The EGR can be cleaned with brake cleaner and a nylon brush, though please be aware there are still faults possible within the actuator that cleaning will not cure – mechanism or motion control. Yes the reported figure you can see relative the EGR in the frame. I do not know the control loop that well to tell you if that is correct or not. Yes, the reported figure back to the ECU may say/read for example fully closed – but due to some mechanical problem the valve could be slightly open.. that is what I am inferring.
All the best
Steve
Hi Steve,Just a follow-up after putting my 2011 sprinter 313 cdi own in to Mercedes commercials in Aberdeen when it would not go over 3000 revs in second or third gear.
Got a phone call to say it would cost over £3500 to sort.I about died and said hold on I only put it in to put on tech machine to check it .He said it needed new prop shaft bit of play,brakes were touch of rust,etc etc.I told them just sort the problem with why it will not go over 3000 revs.This is what they did and price.Injector f comm 1 off £298.84
Injector washer.£0.59
Spherical colla £2.61
Air line £78.50
Seal Ring £2.66
Seal 2.off £6.39
Metal seal £3.65
Gasket.2.07
Gasket.£3.11
Metal seal with.£3.11
Water outlet.£14.76
Break cleaner.£5.20
Screw.£0.86
Antifreeze.£18.18
Fuel pressures and internal sealing check£27.90
Injector replace.£34.88
Charge air system for leaks check.£453.38
Charge air intake manifold 1 replace £20.93
And all the above prices have had 10% off them.plus then add vat it came to £1251.88
What would you say about that steve a bit of a over the top price.
Went back to pick up van and they could not find my key for van after an hour,it was a good job I took my spare with me.waiting to hear your reply what you think.
Chris Heslop
I have a 1996 T1N 412D Sprinter chassis/transmission unit on top of which sits a German built motorhome. One of the things that attracted me to buying the vehicle was the full MB Main Dealer service history. The vehicle has currently done 185,000kms.
As I was planning on driving down through Europe to Croatia (eventually abandoned as the waves of refugees coming in the other direction meant closed borders!!) I decided to change all 6 tyres (best deal for Michelin Agelis tyres was Kwik Fit Mobile tyre service, AND replace all front and rear discs and pads.
I phoned the MB Commercial Main Dealer in Crawley (the motor home is based at the Caravan Club site alongside Gatwick Airport) and asked for a quote.
The MB Service Desk rang me back with a price of £1,525 inc vat PLUS an additional £125 if I wanted the handbrake shoes changed!! Oh, and changing the brake fluid was an additional charge but he could not find a price when he phoned me.
I was later phoned by some market research company working for MB to ask what my thoughts were about the quote I had received. I had difficulty in putting my feelings in to polite words!!
I had the work done by a two man band who have a workshop next door to the Caravan Club site at Worthing, and who do any repairs/maintenance for Members from that site.
The new Bosch discs, pads, handbrake shoes and a full brake fluid flush and change cost me £580 inc vat.
Nuff said!! As far as the MB Main Dealer is concerned, I have had two full services done by them and felt I paid through the nose. Each service they changed the oil spec without telling me (it is necessary to know when you are wandering Europe), and for two years running declined to change the auto box oil when I specifically asked them to do it (at my expense!!)
Covey
Hi Graham,
Well you know, if you add up all the dealer servicing costs that they ‘say’ you require to hold the residual value of your purchase nice and high, over say a three year average mile ownership. You would find that the £ amount saved by using independent servicing over that same period would more than cover the lower trade in figure – by a huge margin.. and some… My view is also that the quality of service is not truly reflective of the higher main dealer costs, and I would be hard pushed to be convinced otherwise. Still, dealers do pander to that elite number of motorists who have clearly more money than sense! – and who also like the comfy chairs with Italian coffee/cinnamon biscuits!
All the best
Steve
Hi Chris,
Gulp! They replaced an injector for £300 probably plus vat I would imagine. If you hadn’t realised that is the abbreviation for ‘Injector Fuel Common Rail’ It must have been leaking and depressurising the fuel rail. A leak off test would have detected this (4 pipes on the injector leak off points) Your faulty one would have pushed more fuel into the tube than maybe the other three on a 15 second cranking cycle.
I must admit the Charge air system for leaks check at £453.38 is a lot of money to fill the induction side with pressurised smoke and look/detect whiffs of smoke but thats what they charge – apparently. Here in make-do-and-mend land where the client chooses used parts over new as the norm with of course the attached risks, sees a very different side to the story. We don’t have a coffee machine, leather chairs, plants and air con and this you have to pay for. I had no idea dealer prices were so much these days (wonder what the labour rate was billed at?) The injector is about what I would expect from a main dealer, also the other smaller bits and pieces, however at over 450 quid for an induction hose leak test I really think they should have asked you first! Re lost Key etc, well that is just poor service really.
Thanks for the eyeopener!
All the best
Steve
I have a 1999 312D (093)
To cut a long story short my van was going into limp mode with the EDC light showing. Had the codes read on a Star diagnostic computer:
P1481 – Glow Plug Failure
P1403 EGR HFM Closed loop Control
P0100 – Mass air flow Sensor
P1622 Shut-off valve
When not in limp mode the van runs just as it should ‘pulls like a train.’ when in limp mode no power with the limited RPM.
ignore the glow plug and the shut off valve as the van turns on and off does not stall.
After testing, the EGR valve cleaned it up it works as it should, all the parts to the turbo are working, actuator moving and holding vacuum, plenty of vacuum flowing around the pipes of the van with out any leaks
Parts changed
EGR Valve replaced about 6 months ago, but cleaned, tested to hold vacuum and opens/closes
MAF Sensor
Air Temp Sensor
Air Filter
Oil Change
Oil Filter
Fuel Filter
Pressure control Valve (Boost Actuator) to both EGR and turbo actuator (Not brand new, brought as ‘used. Tested and manually and via DAS WIS EPC Diagnostics”)
But still Limp mode and EDC light!
After taking the van to Mercedes main dealer in Warrington who did not have clue and could not find the ECU connection point took the van in a independent Mercedes specialised who within an hour found the problem to be the two ‘used’ pressure control valves.
The diagnostic to my problem
Clear the code and start the engine, van not in Limp mode and no EDC light. The EGR is doing all the right things and so is the turbo actuator, after a short while fault and limp mode. such a simple test. attach a vacuum gauge to the ‘OUT’ port, Energise the valve and apply vacuum to in the ‘IN’ port. Both of the valves leaked vacuum, meaning the engine conditions did not meet the ECU’s expected values… Limp mode time!
Bit the bullet and purchased two brand new ones, fitted them, all the problems vanished, my van is back to normal…
So by buying these valves on a well known online auction site thinking I’ve saved my self £100 in fact I had not. I would have saved a heap of time and costs if bought new ones! But on the flip side the vans had a good service.
Hope this can help someone.
Hi Jay,
Thanks for the note. The problems with the vac control solenoid valves is that they corrode internally due to moisture. I would wager what actually happens is they genuinely test OK when taken from the vehicle, but six or more months down the line, standing on a cold parts shelf probably rusts them up inside, because they would already have some moisture inside/start of corrosion present when on the vehicle and the fact they stand operationally motionless for an extended period would do them no good! The Mercedes parts counter man at the dealer will know the part number off the top of his head for these without even looking them up!
Glad to hear you are all sorted.
All the best
Steve
1999 312D (OM603)
Do you know how much vacuum is ‘normal’ for EGR valve to start opening?
Thank you.
Hi Jay,
I don’t have that information I am afraid though the vac pump on the engine should produce no less than 20Hg at about 2000rpm.
All the best
Steve
1999 312D (903)
Thank you, The van is back in limp mode (EDC light on.)
I’ve had the codes read on a Star system and the only two code are
P1481 Glow Plugs
P1622 Shut off Valve
The engine starts and stops just as it should with the ignition key. The fuel pump is electronic and has no vacuum parts to it.
As the engine starts and stops could this code be a false flag?
Jay
Hi Jay,
If the codes were read on Star there will be little doubt they are actual codes. You usually get false readings with more generic off-the-shelf code readers though I think as I said before Carsoft should manage that series. Have you actually measured the coil on the stop solenoid? Though the engine stops ok, is it working correctly or presenting the electrical value that is expected. I assume your set up is a Bosch PES Injection system, though there were a couple of types fitted to these earlier models. Some useful problem solving info here.
If you suspect there is lacking vacuum, you must check the heater flap recirculation vac circuit and also lamp levellers as if fitted and leaking will starve the vacuum circuit of its vital sucking power. Info on heater flap here.
All the best
Steve
Hi,
No, its the VE type injection pump.
Hi Steve, me again…..
A couple of sensible questions (and one possibly not so)
What gauge of wire for the sensor stuff? I’m going to try and order the correct colour codes for a bit of rewiring, hopefully I can get the right colours with tracers from Vehicle Wiring Products, or maybe the motorcycle electrical specialists (modern bikes have very similar to telephone wires)
What is your preferred product for wrapping harnesses? I hate using insulating tape, the glue dissolves after a year or 2 especially with fuel around, I’ve got a motorcycle harness to make from scratch as well as sorting the sprinter (properly I hope?)
This one is a hunch… Which sensor controls the fuel filter warning lamp on the dash? Occasionally when in limp but having been stuck at low speed for a while (M6 Stoke to Brum) and then accelerating, it will creep up to 80ish then the limp kicks in hard and the filter warning lamp comes on, I’ve changed the filter twice in 10K miles so should still be clean, the hunch says rewire that sensor?
Cheers again
Max
Hi Max,
16/02 stranded copper, rather like that you would find in mains flex would be ideal. I would look at some ribbed black plastic flexible split conduit, I am pretty sure they do it in 7-10mm diameter and above, just self amalgamate the ends/entry exit points of cables en route.
The sensor that looks at delivery pressure would be this one Last couple of pictures): http://www.mercedes.gen.in/WP35/low-pressure-fuel-pump-mercedes-sprinter-surging-engine-will-not-go-above-70mph/
Just an advise – do you use genuine Mercedes filters? Aftermarket ones are often made with paper filter element material that is not free-flowing enough for the MB CDI engine set up and often are a cause of the problem you see.
All the best
Steve
Thanks Steve
I’ll pick up a genuine filter next time i’m in Carlisle.
Still wrestling with the electrical short so before cutting/splicing randomly I’m trying to apply a little logic 1st.
With the engine off & cold but with ignition on (all dash lights lit up) when it’s pissing down damp, the temp gauge goes off scale so it’s picking up a stray voltage?
When running, the temp gauge bounces around in exact time to a stutter/missfire, the short is causing this?
My question is, with ignition on but engine not running, which of the sensors (boost pressure, fuel pressure, regulator etc) will be receiving a signal voltage from the ECU? I reckon that’s the one with the chafed insulation.
Hopefully I can narrow the fault down and just rewire the temp gauge & sensor you can possibly identify? No need to rewire everything?
Cheers again,
Max, you don’t think by chance the temperature sensor is shorting inside? – actually the sensor itself shorting out? This is on the thermostat housing. What I would do is maybe buy a new sensor about £8 or £9 from Euro Car parts and just plug it in without removing the old one, see if the gauge reads correctly and if it stops the bouncing.
Steve
I’ll give that a shot Steve, I’ve got a new probe ,tried to fit it weeks ago when the terminals snapped on the old one, typically the old one’s frozen into the thermostat housing so I’m running with it disconnected.
Is it possible that moisture on the terminal plug is causing the ECU to see a temperature spike and causing the occasional stutter by cutting boost or even shutting off fuel? If not then I’m back to a wiring short/issue that only happens during heavy rain (what? Here in Cumbria?)
Tried your suggestion with a loose temperature probe Steve, still no luck, the temp gauge still bounces up & down exactly in time with the stutter/missfire so there has to be a short somewhere in the main harness.
Looks like I’ll have to open up the insulation just below the bulkhead grommet and renew just about everything.
Max
Have a look at this, this may give you a clue as to where to look for the short that may be causing the stumble, it would make sense that it was an injector as it has an immediate effect of the running/smoothness of the engine.
All the best
Steve
Thanks Steve, in my mind I’d discounted injectors because sometimes there’s a stray voltage present with the engine not running but that’s probably why you’re the engineer and I’m the driver.
I’ve looked at the pin-out diagram for the ECU and the injectors aren’t shown, does that mean they’re fed by a sub harness that has a block connector under the bonnet somewhere? If so it might be easier to fit a new one?
The online parts list I was using (a Russian website) has been shut down so I can’t identify parts & part numbers anymore.
Cheers
Max
Well Steve, I followed your advice re genuine Merc filter and she still drops into limp but she’ll now hold an indicated 75mph (genuine 70?) rather than 65-70 as previous so an extra 5-10mph cruising speed is an improvement.
It finally stopped raining long enough for me to rewire the temp probe so I’ve taken away one side of the short circuit (still can’t find the other), no more stuttering for now!
One thing I noticed, do my eyes deceive me or is the wiring steel not copper or even steel coated copper? No wonder it corrodes, dissimilar metals and all that.
700 mile round trip tomorrow so I’ll have all codes deleted before I go and hopefully when I get home another read should finally pinpoint what’s causing limp.
Cheers
Max
Max
Verey good
2007 311 sprinter vans in limp mode sounds like it’s trying to re gen but it’s not. Got fault codes
P0087
P0069
P0234
Any help thanks
Darren
Hi Darren,
The codes you have there are , Fuel Rail Pressure too low, MAP sensor out of range and a overboost/underboost condition. The last two are possibly connected. I would be suspecting the manifold pressure sensor first (boost pressure sensor) once this is replaced you will most likely lose the P0069 and P0234 codes, though I have often seen P0234 codes caused by a sticking turbo/turbo actuator (common on this model) The rail pressure is a wild card, be interesting to see if this returns once cleared as it usually indicates a problem with the fuel rail pressure regulator, rail pressure sensor or High Pressure fuel pump delivery. (As an outside the box thought – do you have a recent Mercedes fuel filter fitted, if not, be sure to do this before any further investigations on the fuel system)
Hope this helps.
Steve
hi steve hope you can help i have a 2010 sprinter with EML flashing and code p0101 as youknow this relates to MAF sensor check all pipes for leaks fitted new MAF still have problem any ideas cheers
Hi Trevor,
That code relates to the MAF not providing a correct value (signal) relative to what the ECU expects to see in air volume, for a given engine load condition. A faulty MAF can obviously be one of those causes, however what may be happening is that there is a mechanical EGR issue – holding open the valve slightly, bypassing boost air flow from the inlet to exhaust. This is a common issue with this model and often the fault does not actually lie with the MAF itself but manifests itself around other things in the control loop – more often the EGR valve. There was a Mercedes TSB about this issue, but I have long forgotten the exact content. Additionally if you have ‘just swapped over’ the MAF, then the likelihood is it will require calibrating using STAR diagnostics to work correctly. There is no other way of doing this that I know of without using the proper STAR tool to clear, reset and reprogram the base parameters of the new MAF device – this is referred to in MB terminology as ‘Teaching’. What I would do first is at least clean the EGR valve and refit, monitor if there is any measurable improvement in the incidence of the fault lamp activation, (with the the old MAF fitted) – If so invest in a known good EGR valve.
Hope this is of some use.
All the best
Steve
Hi Steve Thanks Very Much Really Good Info Cheers Trevor
Hi Steve
My spriter 312td om602 1997 was occasionally going in to limp mode (@2500rpm) then after a long journey sat at 1500rpm with white smoke above these reves. An old school mechanic advised recon turbo & recon the injectors. I´ve managed to remove 4 injectors , the engine starts but runs the same, offcource the no2 injector with sensor to ECU is stuck. i´m having trouble starting the motor as she needs to be warm to be able to remove stuck injector! She has new filters, I´ve cleaned the EGR. been reading the forums for clues, but do you have any possible ideas. One very confused carpinter?
Kind Regards Pablo
Hi Pablo,
You can always use a very small whiff of ‘starting fluid’ (ether) in the air filter box (only a small amount of spray, as a lot can damage the engine!) to get things running, once you have it up to temperature then swap out the remaining injector and see how things are then. If you still have problems once all the injectors are replaced start to look at the turbo with the possibility of failing oil seals. There is plenty to read on the subject on here just use the search box with the term TURBO. Have a look here to start.
See if there is improvement with the change of the final injector and let me know how you get on.
Hope that helps,
all the best
Steve
Hi Steve
What an exceptional web-site your running. thank´s for the quick reply. The turbo has been reconditioned, had trouble re-fitting the oil return pipe with a new fiber gasket , read your link on turbo installation, followed your instructions. Now after disconnecting the turbo, 2nd time re-fitting, instead of a flow of oil leaking out, there is a drip. Perhaps the gasket surface is unevenly compressed, both flange surface were clean , the return flow pipe I sanded and checked with rule to see that it was true and flat. Should I replace the new gasket or add liquid gasket to it?
To replace the 2nd injector, do i go to MB (cost 350euros) or do you know where i could get one second-hand , which I could then re-con?
Kind Regards
Pablo
Hi,
Quick question, should there be a turbo vacuum reservoir on 1999 312D with engine code 60298000295832 (WDB9034622)
Thank you
Jay
Very informative,descriptive and well written. Good work fella. Wish id found it a week ago. Many thanks,rik.
Thanks Rik!
All the best
Steve
Aha. Hey steve i spoke too soon. My problem is still a problem. I have an 04 211 with 165k. Lost boost about a week ago after a couple (4 actually) very short journeys – 50 yards a piece – 1 at each end of 2 days. On t third day t turbo didn kick in til about half a mile of my journey. Then it cut in and out a few times for t rest of t journey. It did this for a few days and i made enquiries meantime as to wot t problem might be. On t third or fourth day i tried cuttin t ignition whilist rollin and wen i flicked t key back on t turbo kicked in. And continued to boost until i throttled back for more than a few moments, at which
point t boost was gone.
On ignition t vane lever doesnt move. So i tried vac from servo straight to turbo and this did move t vane lever. I have tried a new map sensor, with no success. Ive removed vac solenoid and tested – coil seems to pull same way as spring! Cant figure that out. Ive got 10.75 volts on t plug at actuator wen engine is running, 8.75 wen not. I tried pulling t pipes off – wen i block t vent pipe the vane lever moves. I think t solenoid is faulty and i know they give trouble – mines rusty inside – but i dont wanna buy one if 11volts wont operate it. I just bought this van and its provin to be t main ingredient of lemonade.
Any advice ( ‘burn it’ included) would be very much appreciated.
Rik
Hi Rik,
It sounds connected with the turbo boost actuator valve. It should be connected and work in the manner drawn, the valve inside diverts vacuum as shown. These are often a common fail and the parts man at MB will know the part number off the top of his head.
Also this is worth a quick read, I understand that when connected to servo vac, your lever moves – but if the actuator is in any way defective and it does not pull ‘enough’ on the turbo vane lever when that valve is pulsed to control its position, then what happens then is you get either an underboost or overboots condition and it pops you into limp mode until you toggle the ignition on and off. Usually without any EDC dash lamp.
Check here too, as if this pipe comes off you lose a vast amount of vac to the turbo control circuit as it shares the same pipework T piece.
This will be something really annoyingly simple, most probably the control valve, vac pipework or actuator.
Let me know how you get on
All the best
Steve
Hello Steve,
I have a sprinter 312d 4×4. It’s on 158k miles and only recently developed a intermittent fault where it loses power ( I suspect limo mode). As soon as I pull over and turn engine off take key out and then start back up its fine again. Sometimes this does this 5 times in 30 miles sometimes once in 300miles.
I have had it code read which brings up glow plugs, egr and maf. I have replaced both the turbo and egr actuators. But I also blocked off the egr valve about 1000 miles ago.
My mechanic advises to change the maf as he said it could be that which is throwing up the egr fault.
I don’t get any lights show up on the dash just notice a lack in power.
Any help is appreciated as leaving the uk in it this coming week for a long drive to the north of Norway.
Thanks.
Hi Dave,
If thats your van with the gunmetal wrap and a map of the world on the rear quarter its very nice.
I would suspect an issue with air intake volume, this could either be a leaking boost pipe or even the end tanks of the intercooler. If you shine a powerful torch about and look for black oil staining around hose clips and intercooler matrix. I had one this week that had a displaced side tank seal, induction pressure had blown it out like a tongue! Was intermittent low power with no lamp! If performance is otherwise ok I suspect the MAF fault code is a result of an air leak / volume issue and more a result of the fault and not the cause – thats my gut feeling. Check for exhaust manifold leaks, pre turbo with hot and cold running engine (also inspect triangular manifold-turbo flanges for obvious sooty-leak marks) as any exhaust leak will starve the turbo of its propulsion and the resulting ‘lazy spooling’ will trip out the whole shooting match on underboost very easily when under load.
Its worth looking to see if you have any air in the fuel pipes from the LP to HP supply, also make sure the filter is the correct unit and one manufactured by MB, not a FRAM or other aftermarket, as I have seen so many problems with restricted flow rates caused by improperly specified filter medium used inside the non-OEM cans – Fit a proper MB one, if you have not already done so.
Due to the fact the fault goes away and you are not getting an EDC I think you have either an over or underboost situation – out of curiosity, when you replaced the turbo actuator did you set it correctly – see here as this adjustment is critical to the operational balance of the turbo pressures vs vac generated from the actuator control solenoid – aka the resulting turbo vane operating lever position at given engine loads. This can be a common cause of over or underboost if the stroke length is not correctly set on the adjustment vernier when fitting a new vacuum turbo actuator.
Hope this helps and you get it sorted before your trip !
All the best
Steve
Hello Steve, my bad I meant I had changed both turbo and egr solenoids, not actuator.
I have replaced the maf sensor and taken for another drive but still goes into limp mode about 30 secs of driving again.
I have blocked off the egr would this cause a problem? I just made a piece of steel cut to correct shape and bolted between the egr and engine.
I think it’s an electrical issue as power works for the first 30secs after you turn engine on and off and all pipes are fine!
Hi Steve, fantastic info which I hope will help with diagnosing an issue with my 2003 311cdi. Before I start though I could use a little advice. The van has been converted into a camper, and was stood in storage for 4 years. It is now up and running and has just past its mot. It is down on power though, it does rev to 3500rpm when stationary so don’t think it is in limp mode, as it seams to run the same all the time. I have read the codes but it is all clear. Using the Torque app it is showing maximum boost around 12.7 to 13psi. I have checked all hoses, and the actuator on the turbo moves freely and pulls down to the stop on tickover. Any suggestions as to where I should check first would be much appreciated. Cheers
Hi Craig,
Assuming it is not in Limp mode – Stationary it should rev over 3500 rpm out of gear, once the clutch has been depressed and released.
Simple things first are always a good place to start. How about choked or clogged air filter, if yours has the pre-filter foam stuck to the filter element, these seem a little more susceptible to blocking with road crud and leaves, grass etc that finds its way in there. Failing that start to look at fuel delivery – change the filter for a correct MB one, not aftermarket. Look for air circulating in the pipes from the LP to HP diesel pump.
At the back of the inlet manifold top half there is a cover that forms the back of the moulding, sometimes pressure inside this pushes the seal out of place and it can leak from there. If its oily then take it apart and have a look/reseal.
I realise it has just passed an MOT but see if any brakes are binding especially when they get warm, if so look to freeing off the caliper slides – same goes for front and rear axles.
I have a feeling it is probably in limp mode and the fault lies possibly with an under boost situation, please confirm the correct rpm operation – this will be the tell tale and we can go from there.
All the best
Steve
Hi steve. Im now in tears. I fitted a new turbo solenoid valve and still in lhm. Now wen i start t engine t vane lever pulls down but after a coupla seconds returns to t top position and stays there. Still got vac wen i pull off t pipe to turbo. I got no boost from turbo wen i rev and am limited to 3000 rpm. Its gotta be an ecu signal fault, innit?
Cant see it bein actuator as it wont rev past 3k. Cant see it bein vac pipework as i stiil got vac wen i pull pipe off solenoid.
Tearin my hair out now
Many thanks
Rik
Rik,
does the EDC orange lamp light up when you turn the ignition on to position 2 (where all instrument lights illuminate before start)? Its funny how you don’t have this warning lamp on, engine running, if in Limp mode.
Sounds at least as the boost control valve is working as it should now – so not money wasted.
Regards
Steve
Hi steve
Yip. Its a red lamp Saying EDC. Comes on a second then goes out with t first wave – 4 or 5 then another few a milliseconds later another 4/5 leaving.
I put t meter on t wires to t solenoid. Im gettin 8.5v on ignition then 10.6 on start. But wen i plug t solenoid in t voltage drops to zero- engine running or not. Actuator isnt moving any more this evenin- since i put t meter on t wires.
I got some codes at wend b4 i changed t map and solenoid.
Do they shed any light?
1105 atmospheric pressure sensor
Read out too small
0105
B/1 (charge pressure sensor) plausibility
1470 charge pressure negative
Control open circuit
1470 charge pressure low
1470 charge pressure reg. control
Charge pressure high
1630 drive authorisiation control unit no answer
Many thanx rik
Btw i borrowed a map sensor and refitted my old one wen t swap made no difference
Rik, you will need to make sure the two control wires (I think red and blue) to the control valve are not broken/corroded behind the grille in the loom tape as it runs across the top of the cross member. Also look for loom damage as it hooks round the headlamp/intercooler on its way back to the bulkhead. You will need to check continuity from the ECU pins to be sure this is 100 percent. While you are testing wiring, the three wires to the boost pressure sensor and two to the intake temperature sensor need the done just to eliminate them from enquiries. You will find the connector detail link in the fault finding text some where.
Being as you have a full set of P1470’s it still looks to be connected to an open/short circuit or bad cabling to the actuator control valve/solenoid.
Have a read of Alex’s comments here to underline this thinking – he is a very experienced MB guy and knows the CDI inside out
All the best
Steve
Hi steve
I really appreciate all your input. Its amazing how many niggles can cause power loss. I hope u got some more suggestions cos i aint outta t woods yet.
I Measured volts at t plug of t boost valve. It reads 10.7 when its disconnected from t valve but zero volts wen connected. T valve isnt operating any more – actuator stationary and ive got vac at t vent.
Could wire fatigue between t ecu and boost valve give me reading wen valve disconnected and none when re-connected?
does t ecu need faults clearing / resting b4 it will let t engine perform as it shud?
Im new to engine fault finding/coding/diagnosis caper. My last 213 didn need any more than oil, front springs, and tyres in t 5 years i had it. Capitalist insurance company wrote it off when i got cut up at a crossroads.
Many thanks again rik
Rik,
Are you absolutely sure the valve is piped correctly as it sounds as if the vent and actuator pipes may be crossed? You should not have vac at the vent under any circumstances – the pipe that goes up the arch of the transmission tunnel to a little plastic filter. Though this is not going to be the whole problem it will not work if this is wrong. The vent should only ever be routed to the actuator when the valve is pulsed off – this is to allow the trapped vac in the actuator to equalise with atmosphere, causing the rod to extend under spring pressure. Check this with the valve markings. IN – vac from the ball thing and Teed into the servo pipe. OUT – to the turbo actuator VENT – to the small filter bobbin half way up the bulkhead.
The open circuit voltage disappearing when connected could be a cable with corrosion or even one side rubbing/contacting to ground. If you find a break/crack in the wire insulation, inside it will be like green chalk, where the moisture has rotted the copper wires internally to dust. Seen it many times. Pulling the duff wire will break it completely, though beforehand you will see the insulation stretch where the break/rot is. While you are behind the grille, take a look at the horn connections these are often in very poor (green powdery) condition too.
These faults will go away on a ignition on-off cycle when fixed, but will still be stored to be read and cleared with the diagnostic tool.
Good luck,
Steve
Hi steve.
T valve is defo piped right. Im sure it was vac not blow at t filter but ill check again. If t valve wasn powering up at all would t vent not be sucking air?
Ill run 2 new wires from ecu to valve tomoz if i can find t pinout diagram. I know ive seen it somewhere on here. There is a lot of corrosion around this van. Im a bit wary of t colour of t earth points.
Fitted a genuine mb fuel filter this eve so that that box can be ticked. 🙂
Ill either get to t btm of it or end up in t funny-farm.
Thanx again rik
Hi steve
Me again. Wonderin if u have any more suggestions. My boost Solenoid valve is defo piped currectly and t wires from t ecu are good – checked for shorts and continuity. Got 12v on t 12v (brown) wire and about 3.5v on white wen valve is disconnected. They both read 12v when t plug is connected to t valve.
Gettin closer to t gates of t assylum than t btm of this problem,
Many thanx
Rik
Thanks for providing such great info. I thought I would offer up my solution to this problem that troubled me for months . First was the O ring that was not provided for my resonator eliminator, which I would recommend. Helped a little . Second was lubricating the actuator linkage that was rusted and became pretty hard to move . By the way after making a point of securing the circlip it broke in my fingers when I picked it up to reinstall. I used tiewire as a temporary clip . Third was the duct leak above the airflow sensor . I pushed the hose on all the way and resecured the clamp . That one did it . No more limping .
I just hope these simple solutions will save some headaches . Your complete knowledge of these systems was the most help I found in all of the forums on the subject, that are largely smeared with speculations and worst case scenarios. Good luck to all. And thanks for the info.
Hi Steve . Just Fitted new MB No2 Injector (315euro) the motor started quite quickly, But the same as before, chugs just bellow 800rpm and oscilates between 700 to 800 rpm, revs up to 1500rpm with bellow of blue/ white smoke which smells of diesel. I have fitted a recon Turbo , one new Injector, the other 4 have been reconed by Bosch. Should I try the Diagnostic Comp next because no mechanic seems to be able to sort out the fault/s. Any brain waves from you?
Kind Regards Pablo
Hi Pablo,
What kind of crank case pressure do you have? Take off the breather pipe and see how much ‘chuffing’ here. There is an outside chance that the faulty injector has damaged the piston if it was over injecting for some time (increased heat to piston crown) White smoke chugging could be caused by oil blow by and/or low compression. Is there a chance the intercooler is full of oil from the failed turbo? If so this is another place to investigate, as old oil will be drawn from the intercooler into the intake causing smoke. Maybe a compression test is the next thing to do.
All the best
Steve
Hi Steve, I have recently bought a sprinter 211 cdi (2004). The engine was going into limp mode after 2 minutes after first being switched on. If the engine was turned back on again it would last up to 10/15 minutes if the engine was not laboured, it doesn’t take much labouring of the engine to send into limp mode. I took it down to my regular local garage who plugged it into their diagnostics system and they said that i needed a new turbo actuator. They also said that because the actuator was not working the turbo had been damaged and i needed a new turbo also. I had both of these fitted along with a new air filter as that was pretty dirty too. They road tested it themselves and said that it was still going into limp mode under exactly the same conditions that I had experienced and no fault codes were coming back to them on the diagnostics. I have enjoyed reading your descriptive trouble shooting but I’m struggling to work out which category that my van would fall in to. I am not a car man and I can’t relate my cause symptoms to the likely causes you have listed. The garage said that the boost readings were very good and they can’t work out exactly the problem at this stage. I would like your opinion to present to the garage next saturday when they plug my van back in to see what codes have come up this week.
Many thanks.
Adam
Hi Adam,
Its a tricky one. The code you get with code readers that are not Mercedes specific often only give you a code back that would relate to a general condition. Making an assumption that this is the case I predict ‘charge pressure incorrect’ being the diagnosis. As the actuator was faulty this would have caused a low or under-boost condition to be recoded and trip limp home (LHM). It is my guess that the actuator and turbo were sourced as separate parts and assembled on fitment. If the length of the actuator rod that connects the vacuum plunger to the turbo vane position arm is not exactly in the correct position (set to the correct length) then the degree of boost expected by the ECU at certain rpms is not matched with what is being provided by the turbo. (either under or over what is expected will trip the vehicle into LHM) This adjustment is to a few mm’s and the slightest turn makes a huge difference.
Usually this actuator length is bench set at the factory and is individually tuned. However in reality if the items, actuator and turbo were purchased as a complete unit then all should in theory be ok. If the two components were assembled from individual parts then there is a good chance the adjustment of the rod length is wrong. Try to match this to the old rod length would hopefully give you a starting point. What you would then need to do is read live engine data (or actual manifold boost pressure) to ascertain what is going on and at what boost levels things trip out. Its just a guess – but very probable.
The other area that needs to eliminated as a cause would be the boost control solenoid valve that lives under the air box. To say that these are a common point of failure is an understatement. Your Mercedes parts man will know the part number of this component off the top of his head!
I hope my guesses are of some use.
All the best and do let me know how you get on.
Steve
Thank you very much I will pass this on and let you know next weekend
Adam,
It might be useful to read this too.- http://www.mercedes.gen.in/WP35/new-turbo-still-boost-mercedes-sprinter/
All the best
Steve
Thank you for that info. The thing that is confusing me is that when it is not in limp mode the van flies with a lot of top end power and the guys at the garage were saying I was getting great boost readings. It’s like something is completely shutting the turbo or restricting the fuel supply, I don’t know :(. Just after a little while of driving in normal mode it decides to switch back into limp mode and doesn’t give me any of this boost at all
Good day
I have recently bought a 2005 Sprinter 313C with only 60 000km on the clock. Very well looked after van.
The Sprinter was in a a barn for 2 years. The engine runs like a dream.
My problem is with the aircon. It does not work. There is a click noise in front in the engine bay when the aircon is switched on. Sorry, I am not a grease monkey and have no knowledge. After opening the bonnet I saw a pulley running on a “generator/alternator” motor. The click sound comes from this this gadget as the pulley does not turn it continuously. It starts and stops running. That creates the click sound.
I need your expert advice please. What can i do to fix this problem?
Thanks
Arno
Hi Arno,
It sounds as if the pump is cycling correctly however it could be low on refrigerant gas. If a vehicle is standing for an extended period there is natural leakage of gas charge. I would imagine that after 2 years you need a recharge at any garage with the correct equipment and you should be good to go. Low gas would result in poor cooling though you should notice some chilling of the aluminium AC system pipes under the hood, even if the performance is weak.
Hope that helps
Steve
1999 312D Bosch VE type fuel pump.
My question is I have air bubbles in the fuel pipe going to the pump, there are no air bubbles coming from the tank. I have changed the two clear pipes, the fuel filter, the aluminum bracket, the bango bolt all the o-rings but still air! is this normal?
The van is in limp mode with the EDC light lit, code given is P1622, the van starts and stops as it should.
The fuel filter comes with two o-rings one large and one smaller one, do you know the locations to put the o-rings, the fuel filter is made by Mann.
Any help would be most appreciated.
Hi Jay,
Air in the fuel supply is not normal. I am assuming the filter is the bolt on canister type (looks v similar to a traditional spin-on type oil filter) You remove refit by undoing a central banjo bolt and filter drops from beneath a cast housing) If this is the case there should be two O rings plus the main seal around the lip of the filter canister. These smaller seals that come with the filter, one slightly larger than the other, replace those on the banjo bolt holding the filter to the housing. Shown on this YouTube vid from 2m 14sec.
If your filter type is different let me know.
The P1622 code relates to the ‘Injection pump shut-off valve’ this could relate to poor connection or duff valve on the pump block or even the wiring to it. I have also read that the O ring seal or cracks to the plastic top of the shut off valve can cause air to enter the system – though usually often relating to poor starting. (I have no personal experience of this so can’t agree or disagree)
Is the van still in limp mode or is that sorted now?
All the best
Steve
Hi,
Thank you for your reply.
Yes the van is still in limp mode. The banjo bolt on mine looks a little different, it does not have the recess for the smaller of the two o-rings.
I will be buying a new filter tomorrow as I have damaged the inner filter seal by over tightening.
Could it be possible excess air bubbles could be triggering the P1622 error.
Most of the air enters the system after the engine has been revved and returns to idle.
Jay
Hi Jay,
I think its more probable the shut off valve itself or the wiring connected to it is causing the P code. There is a seal inside here that could be passing too. I suppose anything is possible but see how you go on once you have the new filter installed and you are sure everything is airtight in that department.
All the best
Steve
Hi there.
Iv had a 2003 311 2.2 sprinter today come in that won’t rev above 3000rpm. Turn ignition off, resets and ok until moments later does it again. Fault codes are glow plug related (p1481 and p1482) which have been there for years and can’t persuade the owner to do them and the new one p1470 charge pressure negative control. Now in the past Iv had this fault code with open circuit which was broken wires under the drivers headlight and also positive control which I think has been split vacuum pipe from the turbo actuator. I think Iv also replaced the control valve once before. But Iv never had the fault saying negative control. I checked all the pipes all seem ok.
I finished a 2002 c220 203 chassis today that I had to do fix chuffing injectors and legendary broken injector bolts and before I finished I quickly nicked the valve off of it and put it on the sprinter to road test home with no joy.
Before I start pulling my hair out tomorrow have you come across this?
Many regards
Ricky
Hi Ricky
If limp mode trips under load then look for split diaphragm in turbo actuator. Test vacuum holding onto the actuator. Also check vac supply is good enough to quickly pull down turbo lever to stop. Take a quick look at fresh air/recirculation flap actuator on side of heater box as this uses common vac line and often falls apart allowing vac leak on control line supply. Remove the grille and check the intercooler side tanks for oil staining where they are crimped to the alloy matrix. Oil here most probably means boost leak and may be the source of your problem. Hope this helps.
Steve
I have a 57 reg 311 sprinter which has gone into limp home mode. My local man has plugged in snap on machine and it came up with charge air system offset drift under engine load what does this mean. I’ve changed Maf sensor, map sensor on throttle body, stripped egr which Is clean , free and makes the noise when you turn engine off. It won’t rev over 3500 rpm. On taking the top cover off the engine it has got Black Death around no 4 injector and is now chuffing could this be related. The vans done 165000 and lives on the motorway. Any help g
Hi Paul,
Assuming you have checked all the basic stuff, such as the induction system for boost leaks and also the intercooler tanks and matrix, also plastic inlet manifold for perfect sealing, then read on…
This model was common to have turbo problems. Namely the actuator/actuators sticking on the turbo, often caused by the internal mechanism jamming or sticking slightly within the body, this causes the boost to ‘offset’ to what is expected by the ECM for the engine load conditions. Mercedes modified the turbo unit and if you were to buy a replacement over the counter this modified part is what you would get. I would concentrate my effort it this area first (possibly try a used turbo to test if available before purchase) I have known issues with this chase around for months changing this and that when eventually a new turbo puts the problem to bed.
You have looked at the other suspect parts that may be connected and it seems there is no improvement so start to investigate the possibility of the turbo unit being the problematic item. The chuffing will drop your engine power but would not really cause any issue unless it was chronic to the point of the engine not running correctly. It needs doing as it can’t help matters. The new MAF should be given a new base line adaption if replaced to work correctly. If you can’t do this or have not, then swap back to your old unit as it doesn’t seem to be at fault from what you report.
I hope this has given you a few pointers, let me know how you get on.
All the best
Steve
Thanks for your reply. I took the van into a local mb specialist who dealt with the injector problem re sealing all four injectectors and fitting new seals and bolts also the plugs replaced on the injectors as they were brittle with all the carbon around them .They initiated the Map sensor although they said it didn’t need it but as I had bought it they fitted it. They traced the fault to a faulty egr valve which although was not stuck it was not operating electrically, this in turn had clogged up the cat , the egr replaced then pulled the exhaust from the turbo and it went like a train. A tin dpf cleaner from euro car parts in the cat and then a forced regen to clean the dpf did the trick. The garage was spot on and now back on the road
Hi Paul,
Fantastic news! Sounds like a result.
Glad you got it sorted, thanks for the update.
All the best
Steve
Hi steve I have a 2008 515 mercedies van,it has been largely ok except for a check engine light some time ago,however reversing up our rather challenging driveway with our boat hooked on the engine all of a sudden would not rev at all but only idle.I unhooked the trailer after some carefull manovers and went for a run around the street it appeared ok but down a little on power,when I arrived back we hooked the trailer back on and it did exactly the same thing no power any ideas would be great cheers greg.I have noticed the fuel econ has not been as good as it was.
Hi Greg,
Is this auto (I presume it is) or manual transmission?
Regards Steve
Thanks for your quick reply steve my sprinter is a automatic,I apologize it is a 2008 315 not a 515 I took it for a drive this morning and it appeared to be all ok so I run it into a friend of mine with a good quality analyser and it showed no errors at all we went for a drive while plugged in and every thing seemed to be doing what it should be,Egr readings went to 30 when accelerating and back to around 6 when cruising the turbo seemed to be boosting ok and when the engine is turned on the actuator that pulls the turbo variable vanes into position seems to be all free.This is a ex ambo with 182,000 km by the way now when I returned home to back up the drive with no load on the back it would not go above idle again,so I went for a short drive and what I have noticed is that it will not accelerate when you push hard on the pedal you have to be sort of lags and then gets going,however when moving there are no issues,this problem seems way worse when in reverse it seems it only wants to idle you can accually put your foot flat to the floor and nothing happens untill you go back to idle and then it moves slowly.Take note that the engine does not rev up while it is doing this so its giving me the indication its not a transmission prob thanks for all your help cheers greg.
Hi Greg,
Taking a wild guess here but if your drive is on an incline and you are trying to reverse up it with your load, how about the trans fluid is low and causing the Transmission Control Module TCM to signal the engine not accelerate to stop any chance of transmission damage. I would check the level with a maintenance dipstick (Available from good auto factors for the MB Transmission). If this looks correct (check warm and after selecting each slot in the gate) then look for oil migration in the electrical socket. This is a common fault where gearbox oil passes the seal into the multipoint connector on the gearbox and finds its way up the loom to the TCM module! This causes all manner of problems as you can imagine. Its not huge job to fix so don’t think its a gearbox swap! Finally just check the Mass Air Flow meter in the induction pipework this could have a very similar effect.
I believe what you have here is the TCM holding off the engine management/acceleration to prevent damage – cause low oil, leak on multiway socket or internal valve block conductor plate dirty/faulty in reverse switched mode. (The conductor plate will need replacement to eliminate it from enquiries as TCM faults will clear on restart and unless you have the STAR diagnostic machine its unlikely you will be able to access the TCM to read/clear codes)
Hope this has helped, do let me know what you find.
Regards
Steve
Hi again Steve I did a few of the checks you gave me plus a few I went over that I have done to the van,I will read them back to you and see what you think.
1 disconnect Tcm plug at the transmission and found no oil or any reasons to doubt connection problems.
2 checked air flow connections and components for damage or dirt build up.Dont have readings to check with multi meter.
3 checked oil height,it appears to have correct amount my dip stick is a multi use item and is 820mm long and appears to touch pan bottom and reading from bottom when hot is around 70mm im afraid this is the best I can do right now with that.
4 oil seems pretty clean on the end of the stick and does not smell burnt.
5 checked foot brake switch and it seems to be good.
6 checked my previous wiring with module connected for towing and it seems good and if it was a problem the light comes up on dash.
7 checked all the relevent fuses in associated with transmission,brakes,motion.
So I went for another drive I did some more thorough testing and came up with the following.
1 If the brakes are applied on flat or incline in drive or reverse the van will not move when accellerator is pressed flat to the floor,this also applies to hand brake im not sure if this is a safe fail mb thing.
2 Truck will not pull from a standing start when accellerating hard whether load or no load in drive or reverse and especially on inclines,if I put small ramp under wheel it will not climb onto it at all in forward or reverse however if you back up it will happily climb with a run up at idle.
3 Once mobile the van accelerates easily up hills in reverse or drive and changes up and down through the gears without a problem,it will manually change with the tip tronic and performs as normal even with a load on,but not from a standing start it has to be moving first,I have also noticed the revs seem to have changed a bit and when you go from drive/reverse into park or neutral it revs up quickly to about 1200rpm and then drops back to normal I have also noticed it seems to move forward against the brakes a bit when selected into drive or reverse but only at idle.Im pretty sure I have covered every thing steve the only other thing thats bugged me with this is that if you come to a rolling stop going around a corner with a incline and try to reaccelerate it vibrates quite bad and if you back of and almost stop it will take of again fine?It hade a transmission full service with filter about 20,000 km ago by transmission specialist and I believe correct mb rated oil?Sorry for such a long post but I wish people would give me more imformation in my job ,it would make life a lot easier.Cheers Greg.
Hi Greg,
Ok thanks for the info. If the TCM were to be signalling to the ECU in ‘protect’ mode I really would have expected an ECM warning lamp on on the dash. Thats the the only thing that does not fit with the issue. You seem to have some brake related anomalies and the common problem here is usually a brake light switch above the pedal. It is a dual contact affair, one set working the lights and the other lighter plated contacts giving activation position info to the ECU. If the fragile set of contacts are playing up it will prevent turbo boost and and a few other things to do with the engine management and ABS/Cruise functions if fitted. I still think its the TCM holding off the revs, as the internal conductor plate has not only valve position referencing but has speed sensors that calculate among other things slippage and change point of the transmission and sends hold off info back to the ECU if there is a problem. But without playing with it myself and reading stored and pending codes in the TCM its hard to say. For the cost of it, its worth swapping the brake switch and having at least a look-see to make sure it hasn’t become dislodged in its bracket above the pedal. Even if the brake lamps are working, it does not mean the secondary set of contacts are working as they should.
Trans Fluid level on level ground, HOT 80 Degrees C from the bottom of the stick (when pushed fully home) should be MIN=55mm/MAX=65mm with cold fluid, 25 Degrees C then MIN=10mm/MAX=20mm Things are quite critical as you will know, for a quick check hot your 70mm looks to be slightly overfilled.
I would maybe do the switch as it a cheap try, then get an independent with STAR to do a deep diagnostic of the TCM and ECU to retrieve stored or pending codes – its the only way forward really.
Just a thought Greg, this is a true 722. Automatic box or is it a Sprintshift? I know Sprintshift was fitted to a few ambulances and the faults are obviously different. What I have said so far referee to the standard Auto. 722.
All the best.
Steve
Thanks again Steve for your detailed reply,the switch was tested both sides of the contact for continuity and it appeared to be operating correct for a switch im of the conclusion it seems to be computor related why its all of a sudden done this I have no clue but as you know electronics are electronics and they do weird and wonderfull things at the worst times.I also believe the Tcm is an issue which I think if I will take it to our transmission specialist he should be able to sort it out,unfortunatly our mercedies techs over this way tend to be a little green but they should be able to read the codes for me.I will let you know how it pans out.
Sorry Steve I did’nt answer your question on the automatic Im not sure if its the 722 you speak of but it is 5 speed auto with tip gear selector that when pulled across you can drive it manually,when I have spoken to others that own them I believe there the same.Is it possiable that a throttle positioning devise or cam shaft position scensor could be the problem and do you know where the Tcm module would be located I have had a bit of a look but can not locate it cheers Greg.
Hi Greg,
The trans you have there is most likely the 722.9 automatic and definitely not the Sprintshift that was a popular ‘semi-auto’, whereby a standard 6 speed manual gearbox was fitted with a set of hydraulic shifter elements, this was controlled by a TCM that basically did the work of the clutch for you – including starting and stopping ! Great system whilst it works!
This should help you out finding the TCM and also in discovering what it actually does and how it functions – TCM
I think the TPS, Cam sensor if an issue would play up all the time and certainly give you an orange/yellow engine management lamp on the dash. This I think is a high level fault called into play by the TCM, the fact the vehicle is fly-by-wire and the ECU has the last say when to allow throttle increase I think for sure its some safety feature sliding into play.
There is one avenue we are yet to explore – As an aside the TCM is very picky with battery voltage, and if its supply falls only slightly below what a good battery and charge system would provide it starts to act up. Given your issues are at idle and when the alternator would be delivering a low charge and perhaps the battery is not as good as it should be… get my drift. When you are up to speed on the road the battery/alt charge will be slightly higher – perhaps overcoming the issue. There are known problems with the Y cable that supply the battery supply to both the starter and main fuse board, also there is a fuse holder under the hood that also gives trouble. All these are common/known issues with the NCV3 and should the Y cable be low resistance you will have some electrical gremlins for sure. It has been known that when the cable is inspected it more or less breaks up in your hands though I have seen usually some burning. Check it out its a possibility – the TCM is the most picky of all regarding battery voltage.
You may need to join the forum to view any pictures, but there is a great deal of info here on the cable replacement. – http://sprinter-source.com/forum/showthread.php?p=86851#post86851
All the best
Steve
Hi again Steve,Thanks for that imformation on the Tcm it was extreamly interesting reading im sure if people new what they were getting themselves in fot with all these electronic things to make life easer im sure they would stick to the good old realable mechanical way of life but where into deep now and thats that.I bit the bullet today and got a dedicated mb service tech that was factory trained but works independant and he checked all the coding and said there were no problems at all and the only thing he comment on as far as electronics go is the key module will need to be replaced soon as it lookes like it is going to be a problem.He believes the Torque converter is the problem but he could not explain why it runs perfect except for not moving from a standing start with foot flat to the floor, he believes its some sort of protection thing I checked voltages and cabling all seems good voltage is charging at 14.2volts and does not change even with lights turned on ,so I guess im totally lost now I read at another merc forum someone had exactly the same problem with a truck with only 65000km and they came to the same conclusion but the merc people would not guarantee it would fix it so he just sold the vehicle and moved on,I would be lieing if I wasnt thinking the same thing right now,is there any chance that key module could be a problem?I always thought torque converters would not stop you from reving the car why is it acting perfect above idle how does it idle up a small incline but when you put your foot down there is no engine revs untill the truck moves a bit faster is there some sort of speed scensor issue?Whats your thoughts on his diagnosis.cheers Greg.
Hi Greg,
The EZC Electronic key module error is a common report on the reader, I have known have vans flag that up for years without an issue so my advice would be to forget about that for the moment! Knowing the gearbox as I do, I would not do anything or make any decisions until I had replaced the internal conductor plate. This is a known achilles heel of this gearbox and can manifest in many ways, it should not be an overly expensive job to do.
You should really measure the supply voltage and ground continuity directly at the module to discount any issues here.
I can’t suggest much else I am afraid.
All the best
Steve
Steve Thanks so much for your advise and imformation,I notice you have never referred to the torque converter yet so many have,I find this is a strange diagnosis as I have never seen a converter act like this I am going to get the transmission guy to take a look at the conductor plates you talk about I will get him to check the voltageas well,im glad to here that about the key module I was’nt 100% convinced it was going to fail straight away,the way this merc tech painted my truck wasnt real good he referd to it as not a good model but the later ones were better,I love this van we drive it everywere and its been quite trouble free untill now however I have only owned it for 20,000 km.I will keep you posted when the problems been resolved hopefully soon thanks again for all your help cheers Greg.
Hi Steve finally got the van back from the transmission guy after some carefull checking of every component I was capable of testing,and the transmission guy was correct although he had not seen this particular problem before,but it worked out to be the sprag one way clutch in the torque converter we got it totally rebuilt and the rebuilder said it was a common problem with the sprinters with this transmission he had done quite a few so the van changes gears fantastic and the small shudder it has always had turning into my street on a hill is no longer there,great result.cheers Greg.
Hi Greg,
Fantastic you have it fixed and thanks for the info. Useful in the respect that we don’t see a great deal of Sprinters here in the UK that are Auto. (mostly just food delivery vans) My Auto experience is akin to gearboxes on MB Saloons and this is a fault I have never ever seen! Noted that the rebuilder said it was ‘common’ to Sprinters – he obviously has not seen incidence of this in MB car derivatives. Interesting indeed.
Thanks again for the valuable update and do keep in touch.
All the best
Steve
Hi steve, i have a 2002 110 vito, had fuel leak on no.1 injector inlet pipe, changed it all good, then also changed copper washers, clamps etc,because 2nd injector was leaking, big mistake,3 flew out but the 1 that was leaking…big job,,,any how by the time i got it out ended up having 2 get another 1 and also another rocker cover..built it back up eventually no leaking injectors….the problem am having now is it wont boost at all…revs just under 5000 rpm…cant see any split pipes ect, when started the turbo actuator comes down but when reved it dosent move..turn engine off ,goes back 2 normal place and its free enough,,,could it possibly b the turbo boost pressure sensor?
Any comments would be much appreciated…cheers richy.
Hi Richy,
Have a look at the wiring to the camshaft sensor on the back of the rocker cover, any problem here – even a faulty here sensor would cause cam/crank synchronisation errors and most probably hold off the boost. Do you have a engine fault lamp lit? Was the replacement injector new? If it was used it could be leaking past internally and dropping rail pressure. Do a leak off test (google this its really easy with some plastic tube) and see if all is OK in the rail pressure department. Once the new injector is discounted then you can begin to look for other things.
Just to be sure – the fuel pressure regulator on the back of the rail is plugged in correctly and the wiring is OK? and the fuel pressure sensor at the front of the rail is plugged in and has no trapped wires etc.
All the best
Steve
Wonder if you can help with my weird and wonderful creation??
I have transplanted an OM602 from a 312d into my 308d. The main differences here being that the OM602 had an ECU with electronic throttle and electronic injector pump.
After lots of playing around I have a running engine but with no throttle control and the engine constantly hunts high and low revs.
I have wired the coloured wires from the throttle position sensor into the corosponding coloured wires coming from the ECU. The wires heading to the pump and other connectors on the engine are also wired in apart from some of the thicker red and black wires…
The thicker red and black wires, when connected to 12V provide clicking at the pump and will start the engine. Removing one of the Red and black wires will cause the engine to rev higher, removing the next will cause the engine to stop.
I’m a bit stuck without a pinout of the ECU and nothing seems to exist online or in the haynes manual.
If anyone can provide a pinout for the ECU I would be eternally grateful.
Hi Nolan,
Its difficult for me to assist on this one as you really need to be physically there to figure the problem, but the info you need, diagrams etc are here. Search through the manuals and I am pretty sure you will find what you need – or at least get the info that is close enough to help you work things out.
All the best
Steve
Hi Steve, mercedes 310d 66,000 genuine miles.
The weirdest thing… The oil light came on when driving on the motorway at 60 so slowed down to 50 and it went away. I pulled off added 1 litre although it didn’t really need it. 10 mins later happened again, came off parked up for 20 mins restarted and no oil light but 2 mins later back on so got the motor towed home.
I did a oil pressure test with gauge. it is 17 psi at cold idle but when I rev the oil pressure does not go up I have warmed the engine slightly and still 17psi. I am thinking stuck pressure relief valve ..blocked pick up filter?
There was some white smoke but when I changed the oil and filter this disappeared but after running the engine for a bit to recheck oil pressure more white smoke and a little bit of water loss. Not sure if the two are related.
I am not sure why the oil light is on at 17psi at cold idle when the haynes manual says 6 psi is fine.
Hi Mark
I am assuming you have a red oil indicator lit and not the orange low oil indicator (If fitted as it is often in the cluster display) You will probably need to check the wiring to the sender or even purchase a new one for the vehicle. List here
The figures I have in my head for a CDI are that at idle you should see at 600rpm a minimum oil pressure of 1bar= 14,5 psi – You are above that at idle so that seems OK. Strange as it does not increase with engine rpm, as an absolute max pressure you could see as high as 7 bar. Certainly not remaining the same as idle pressure. Check the oil filter is seated correctly on the spike and that the seals are correct and in place. Good theory about pressure relief valve but if I were you I would double and triple check what and where I was reading pressure from is 100 percent accurate, as if there is no knocking or engine complaints from normal its seems very unusual indeed.
Sorry I have not been more help. Do let me know what you find. Have a read here and further through the links from the page. It seems there are internal oil spray jets that could regulate/stifle system pressure to about 20 PSI and if you have lost one of these spray ‘jets’ then perhaps this could be worthy of investigation, especially as you see 17 psi unchanged. This is neither my opinion or recommendation, just another avenue to follow.
All the best
Steve
Hello Steve, i have a problem with my 2004 Mercedes Sprinter 313cdi Luton box van, it would be appreciated if you can help me out on this,
Recently the van did not drive over about 2000rpm but when still the revs go up the way they should,
The EDC light has been on since before this problem, the glow plug light is on constantly,
Took it to garage and did a full diagnostic the codes which came up are..
PO500-001
P2007-001
P1482-004
P1481-001
P1481-002
P1481-004
P1481-008
I’ve had the full wiring loom changed got the ecu changed,
Now the van will go over 2000rpm
When driving but will go up really slow, on motorways it drops speed erratically when goin up hills, will drop to 40mph,
I’ve had a service done oil and all filters,
Would be really helpful if you could point me in the right direction,
It’s very very sluggish and picks up speed really really slowly,
Hi Shak,
The interesting code is the P2007 Pre delivery fuel pressure varies from specified pressure. This could be as simple as an air leak in the delivery pipe, blocked/incorrect fuel filter or faulty low pressure delivery pump. See here for LP pump notes.
The P0500 is a CAN speed signal that is not plausible. This is probably a wheel speed sensor acting up and although may trigger the ABS lamp should not affect the boost.
The other P1481 codes are Glow plug faults and should not cause you a problem if you operate in moderate temperature. Indeed here in the UK, most of the courier fleet I maintain have the glow plug fault lamp illuminated and the risk of changing the glow plugs vs the damage that can ensue with a stuck-in-the-head device is simply not worth the risk to fix as they start and run just as well without them.
Hope this helps,
All the best
Steve
Hi Steve
A long time since i posted but I have been busy replaced all the injector leads with new ones and it did help van ran smoother but my p1470-16 charge pressure problem still remained and to be honest I just put with it through the winter and because I was not using the van wasn’t a problem, just turning ignition off and back on solved it for a bit. I was surfing a well known auction site and came across the vac ball and solenoid still together for 30 quid so took a punt it seems to have stopped the code but a live read still seems to show low boost pressure. (The van still seems a bit down on power) and I was just wondering what normal boost pressure is on a 2003 311 cdi I am planning on replacing the turbo boost pressure sensor anyway and already have the air temp sensor on order.
Hi Rob,
You should see about 20psig as a healthy boost (above atmospheric). I am unsure if the turbo has been serviced or adjusted (can’t remember if we talked about this) but reading this may give you some other areas to look into. Also there may be some mileage here, at least worth a check. It seems that you are making some good progress anyway.
All the best
Steve
Hi Steve
Thanks for the info. That would make me a tad down on boost as i’m getting if i remember right last time i checked 1196 millibar max I will check it again tommorow on live feed as we use the van will get the wife to watch. Not getting any limp mode or lights turbo has not been overhauled that i know off, but appears to be working I am considering changing the vacuum actuator and replacing turbo cartridge as a cheeper alternative to the whole turbo.
Hi Steve.
New problems probably because i fixed the others, today the van fired up then immediately stopped would not restart. A quick look under the bonnet showed a wet patch under the hp pump which only got worse the more i tried to start it also spotted loads of air in the system even bleeding it never worked attempted to start then stopped i’m guessing the pump has finally given up as I can’t see any fuel anywhere else leaking. Got home tonight after work put the scanner on it gave me p1470-8 charge pressure open circuit that’s the wires to the vac solenoid need replacing. Just as i saw light at the end of the tunnel.
Rob
Hi Rob,
This van will be like new when you have finished! The break in the vac controller solenoid wiring is usually across the front cross member (by the horn) or just as the loom hooks by the N/S headlamp. Remake the horn connections while you are in there as the wires will no longer be wires and probably will just be blue corroded powder.. The HP pump O rings can be replaced with a kit costing in the order of £20 so don’t think that you will need a new £300 pump – most probably a change of seals in the bolt on heads of the pump will make it good as new. The seal kit is for a Bosch CP1 pump and can be found here.
All the best
Steve
HI Steve
I wish it was a new van would have been cheaper got to say I was not looking forward to messing with the HP pump but bought a seal kit and took my pump apart, surprisingly easy to do replaced every conceievable seal and the two seals on the main shaft, still had loads of seals left over guess there for other variants of this pump. Replaced pump got as much air out of the system as i could van still refused to start after a while of messing i cracked open one of the injector pipes air bubbled out van then started once i had tightened it back up but noticed the fuel pipe from the filter to the pump was a little loose so ordered a new one. This was not my week van broke down again at home luckily this time more air in the lines and a dead starter motor new fuel line arrived fitted new starter fitted van turns over a lot quicker result, NOPE van still getting air in the lines replaced all the seals on the fuel pipes still air in the system thinking about a new filter to try and elimanate that as I don’t know where to look now as i have replaced every fuel line seal sick of bleeding it as well.
Rob
Hi Rob,
If you have the filter with the water sensor in the base, throw it away and fit a canister type (without the hole in the base for the sensor) Make sure the rubber last 2 inches of pipe that connects the feed to the filer inlet is good using the correct fuel line clips, also replace the black plastic non return valve thingy, this sometimes cracks invisibly and lets in air. Did you inspect the O ring seals on the low pressure end of the clear pipes, these are worth a change.
Almost there….
Regards
Steve
Hi Shak
This may help, I do not know, but fairly easy to try.
My turbo blew and I fitted a new cartridge as the van was not worth a whole unit.
The van started but no real power and on motorway hills I was down to 35mph with trucks up my a**e.
I put up with it for a year, it cost a fortune in fuel and was a pig to drive. I bought a S/H and a new boost valve, a new brake switch and stripped all the cable from the front wiring loom under the radiator. A local garage, under my instructions not to spend more than an hour on it said the exhaust was clear and no fault codes were present. Just in passing as I left they mentioned that the return spring on the turbo actuator lever seemed a bit weak.
I continued to drive the ‘pig’ and then one morning in desperation, as I had to go on the motorway and dreaded the idea, I stopped on the lane down the road just before the motorway and looked at the turbo. I found an old bungee cord in the back of the van and fashioned it to pull the actuating lever back up to help the return spring. I hooked it between the lever and up to the windscreen wiper bracket.
WHAT a difference! It went like a rocket, no problem. The bungee cord has now been upgraded to a coil spring and a length of wire and by careful adjustment of tension over the next few months I tuned the engine.
This may help. Do this at your own risk but remember the turbo gets pretty hot so don’t rely on the bungee for long, fit some wire.
Sprinter 311CDI W plate.
Paul
Hi,I purchased a 2010 313 Cdi sprinter with 75,000 on the clock,I have only drove 4000 miles and the engine management light is flashing yellow and saying drive engine at high rev speed see manual,this happened just before Xmas and I gave it a decent motorway run and it went off, I don’t do much motorway driving just small journeys which I’ve been told is not ideal, but I fit Windows ,and I’m mainly local.it came on again a few weeks ago , again and I’ve noticed it won’t go above 3000 revs.ive put some cleaning fluid in and gave it an hour on the motorway but it’s still saying drive engine at high revs,so I’ve taken it to a garage and they put in on a merc computer,they then tried to in vain blow it thru on the for court with high revs for 20 mins, it would go above 134dgs, they then picked up a censor on the computer to the air management I think it was, replaced it at £175 plus vat plus labour, then to tell me they need to take my van for a motorway run for possible 3 hours with the computer plugged in to regenerate it,I know nothing abt engines as you can probably tell with my info,but I’m thinking the worst!can you put me straight?with some info
Hi Mark,
What they plan to do is force a regeneration with the diagnostic tool. I am surprised that this did not work on their first attempt and wonder if they are planning to borrow the Mercedes specialist tool for the job. It could be the ash load is too high for regeneration and it could be that if the vehicle has been used for short runs through its life the DPF is choked and requires cleaning or replacing. Physical removal and cleaning with a special detergent product and a powerful jet wash could be enough to allow it to regenerate (burn off the impurities) but if it does not then look towards replacing the DPF with a known good one. It seems as if they have eliminated any sensor issues by replacing what did not look quite correct on the diagnostic scanner. Often a blocked DPF will give a fault reading to the differential pressure sensor as often it will be well out range and flagged as faulty even though it it most likely reading the truth!
Hope this helps
All the best
Steve
Having cutting out problems with my Mercedes vito 1993 starts first time and after running cuts out.I have to turn off ignition and it restarts.I have to date had both pumps replaced cam shaft sensor crank case sensor and fuel filter replaced. Mercedes dealer after 4 weeks only suggested replacing complete fuel system. Also the pump sensor has been replaced.Can you please please help.Many thanks Ron
Hi Ron,
Could be electrical, is it throwing any codes? Often the loom breaks chafes as it drops from the engine to the chassis, check the wiring round the engine mount as if engine has been out at some point loom is often trapped on reassembly and more often wires pinched. It is reasonably common for the injector wiring to wear through beneath the cable conduit on the head. If any injector is shorted to earth at any time, the engine will die. Loosen the plastic conduit/tray and slide some cut up plastic bottle between the rocker cover and cables and see how you get on once these are insulated from the head. The cable insulation wears through as it contacts the head due to vibration over time.
Hope that helps
Steve
Steve,
We have a 2011 Mercedes Sprinter 3500 with the six cylinder. Vehicle was at another repair facility and did some major work ie…. rear main oil seal, engine oil cooler and a couple of other minor repairs to some turbo hoses. This vehicle keeps setting a turbo underboost code. We suspect the vane actuator but really do not have any way to watch PIDs for the turbo. Although we have smoked checked for leaks and pressurized the entire system up to 38lbs and also sprayed down around the turbo tube and cooler orings and have not discovered any leaks. Any thoughts would be highly appreciated.
Thanks in advance
Gary
Hi Garry,
The inlet manifold bolts/fixings pull out of the plastic moulding and prevent a good seal on the four cylinder, not sure of the layout of the six as we don’t see it often here but worth a check of the plastic inlet parts. Common seen fault. Has the manifold been off? Another thing to check is the free movement of the turbo actuators, if its been standing a while during repair they may be sticky. Again some thing you may have checked but a problem seen often. Check the side of the intercooler tanks where they are crimped onto the alloy matrix, look out for an orange or black gasket squeezing out, indicating a failing seal. Usually accompanied with some black oil staining. Check all the small bore pipework has been replaced correctly to the DPF and CAT differential pressure switches, check for damage/cuts/splits. Check for leaks on the exhaust side of the manifold around the turbo, anything here will prevent the turbo spinning up to capacity. Especially the triangular gasket where the turbo bolts to the flange. Check EGR is not stuck open or dirty. If your motor has the swirl flap mechanisms make sure this is being servo’ed and some movement of the levers is seen – what sometimes happens is the servo dies or the plastic flaps themselves fall to pieces blocking the inlet tracts. Again please check these are actually featured on your version of the V six power unit.
A few things to try, I hope its been some help.
Let me know how you go on,
All the best
Steve
Hi Steve
I have a large hole pressed into the inner wing just above the battery, should there be a trim panel that clips in to blank it off?
Water from the windscreen corner drain pours through it onto the battery top and migrates into the harness, I’m sure this is the cause of my damp electrics/shorting out problem.
Cheers once again.
Max
Hi Max
I am pretty sure there should be a big rubber boot/grommet that the harness passes through into the cab this should for sure be blocked off for the environment.
All the best
Steve
Hi Steve
All the bulkhead grommets are present & watertight, this one’s an oblong in the inner wing, slightly bigger than a pack of 20 Bensons with the bonnet release cable going through it, you can see through to the outer wing and the indicator repeater wiring.
When it rains (Cumbria again), all the water from the passenger side windscreen drain runs back into the engine bay through this hole, soaking the section of harness between battery & inner wing and also running off the battery tray onto the main harness underneath, parking with the nose downhill makes it even worse.
I’m going to try and blank it off with some plastic sheet glued over the hole, hopefully this should direct the water down between inner & outer wings where it should eventually drain away in the wheelarch somewhere?
Cheers
Hi mate’ just wondering if you had any ideas. My 2000 311 Mercedes sprinter travelled for 70 miles then loss all power, edc light come on dash and went into limp mode. People have said water in diesel or fuel filter. Can’t see this as tank full of dieseljust at a loss and scratching my head. Ruined our holiday. Thanks
Hi John,
Usually sudden power loss is due to a leaking turbo hose that causes limp home. First check all large diameter induction pipework to and from the intercooler, look for black oil staining. The big hose on the top of the engine nearly aways splits underneath where you can’t see, remove it and check. make sure all hose clips are tight and there is no leaks around them.
Hope this helps, best to check this first before suspecting anything else.
All the best
Steve
Hi, first time on the forum. I have a 1999 312TD 5 cyclinder Sprinter. Automatic box. Hymer Motorhome strapped to it. 6 months ago I lost loads of power. 30 mph uphill tops. After a bit of playing around I saw that the circlip had come off the actuator. I refitted this with a decent replacement circlip. Ran lovely for months. Just recently exactly the same problem but the actuator seems to be fine, circlip still on and the arm moving correctly.I have had a diagnostic done (not by Mercedes but here in France where I live) They are saying, “solenoid valve for correction of injection advance” The fault is intermittent but mainly the power is not there. I still want to say that this is an actuator problem as it is so similar. I welcome any thoughts on this one. Thanks.
Hi Steve,
A lot of the early Sprinters had a vacuum system that did not use the electrical solenoid valve to control the turbo, If yours has this part it will be mounted under the air box along with a vacuum reserve, rather like a small child’s hard plastic play ball. Check all these connections and look for splitting and badly fitting hoses. You could do with pulling a vacuum on the actuator and making sure it holds vac, this will check out its internal diaphragm. A common thing is for the electrical loom to break along the front crossmember.
It may be the older system in which case you will have to be lead a little by what you are being told, they probably have read the fault codes and come up with P1350. This does point to the advance device located under the fuel pump, you will find some info on this here: http://www.digital-kaos.co.uk/forums/showthread.php/198702-1999-Sprinter-310-Fuel-solenoid-Fault I would check out the electrical side of things including the connector before diving in with spanners.
Hope this helps,
All the best
Steve