Comments and help given

 
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  • From ABOULAYE Zoulk. on Mercedes Sprinter Radio Code Decoder

    Hello i need a code for my radio. Its a mercedez E230 MODEL BE 1650 Serial number : T 1090208 Thanks

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      From Steve Ball on Mercedes Sprinter Radio Code Decoder

      42416 Will unlock the radio for you Zoulk,
      Regards
      Steve

  • From pstutcher on Mercedes Diesel Injector Advice - Sprinter and others

    Steve, Great advice, thanks again.

    However, other questions have come to mind. If I were to replace any or all of these injectors with new, how would I go about dialing in that tuning for the new injector(s)? Likewise, if I were to have them rebuilt, their performance characteristics would change and therefore the tuning would then be off. Can the dealer do this? Does the car “learn” the new injector characteristics based on sensor readings?

    FYI, those injectors have 231k miles on them and are undoubtedly tired. Having said that, the car starts and runs great despite of the 2 leaking seals and the -21F temperatures we’ve had here lately.

    My main goal is to correct the leaks, but it seemed like a good time to have them rebuilt while they are out of the head, but if it runs well and changing the characteristics of the injector(s) will screw up how well the engine runs, maybe I just let it be and only fix the seals. What do you think?

    • Avatar photo

      From Steve Ball on Mercedes Diesel Injector Advice - Sprinter and others

      Hi Pete,
      I had forgotten to add that testing at our local depot is £15 each, refunded against any repair/refurb.

      I was careful to say that coding is a ‘fine adjustment’ and to be truthful in my experience makes hardly any difference, I suppose it may be more noticeable in a new vehicle, but a 200k+ miler will have more intolerances in its general running order to deal with than this ‘micro-adjustment’ it would seem. In the case of fitting a new injector the MB procedure is to enter the unique 7 digit code on Star (MB Dealer level Scan tool) ‘classifying’ the new injector to the ECU.

      It has been reported by many who have not bothered, (when fitting new or used parts) that omitting this classification procedure makes no noticeable real world difference to the running of their vehicle (T1N models specifically, things could be a whole lot different for the NCV3 07-on models, I don’t know…) Without doubt the dealer would do it, but most DIY’ers would not bother. The important thing to do is always try and get them back in the locations from where they were removed, this will aim to minimise any anomalies.

      If I were to guess, I would say the adjustment or ‘classification’ of an injector relates more to ‘pairing’ the exact electrical characteristics of the piezo/solenoid part of the injector to the ECU and less of an adjustment to its mechanical function – that would be the bit cleaned/replaced in any refurbishment. Seems logical to me, although this is only my own personal 2cents guess and may not be valid.

      Certainly your diesel expert will be able to offer a cleaning service if the injectors prove OK, what’s the harm in having them tested while they are out?

      You could get an idea if the injectors were worn before removing them from the engine by conducting what is called a leak-off test. You will find details here, this would give you at least an idea of what lay ahead both financially and mechanically and I suppose could sway your trip to the diesel expert.

      As for the seals only being replaced – Remember the saying – if it ‘aint broke don’t fix it! – That one is entirely up to you…

      All the best
      Steve

  • From Bill on Mercedes Sprinter Turbo - Limp Home - Diagnosis and Fault Finding

    Hallo guys.
    As i described above i had an LHM problem too.If this could help you i would like to say that when the problem appear there wasn’t any engine warning lamp but i understood that there wasn’t any turbo boost.After almost 1500km the engine warning light went on.My opinion by personal experience is that the specific sprinter 315cdi with the bi-turbo engine is very sensitive in the types of oil we using because of residues oil leaves to the engine.I am from Greece and here the best type to use is 5-40 from top quality manufacter.After a little searching i discover that these type of engine has issues when working long tearms in idling.And also don’t forget the dpf filter that makes things more complicated.A re-generation of the dpf is necessary twice a year.

    • Avatar photo

      From Steve Ball on Mercedes Sprinter Turbo - Limp Home - Diagnosis and Fault Finding

      Thanks for the input Bill.
      Idle times have long been in the order of maximum of 15-20mins in circles of those in the know. Low ash oils are a prerequisite for modern DPF fitted vehicles. These days regarding the turbo, heat I understand is the primary issue with the oil and turbo. Stop-start driving, especially from highway speeds, without letting the turbo cool down (blow down)for a while before switching off the engine. The resulting turbo heat that is not allowed to dissipate, cooks the stationary oil in the turbo – causing oil based solids to start accumulating in the bearing area and these start to restrict good and proper oil flow.
      All the best
      Steve

  • From pstutcher on Mercedes Diesel Injector Advice - Sprinter and others

    Steve, Great. I suspected such, but needed that confirmation. My black death injector leak fix begins next weekend.

    Anyone have any advice on where I could send injectors to be rebuilt? What should I expect to pay for it. I don’t think my injectors are bad, but since they’re out, I’m going to rebuild them.

    • Avatar photo

      From Steve Ball on Mercedes Diesel Injector Advice - Sprinter and others

      Hi Pete,
      If you do a quick scan of the diesel engineers in your area (should be some) they will have all the tackle to test and service the injectors. Every large town has a diesel engineer as most commercial vehicle garages rely on them for their services to fleet and lorry markets. Best bet is to pop round with the goods and have a chat. Be sure to mark which injector came from what cylinder location as these injectors, like most these days are electronically coded to an engine location in the ECU. Whilst you can get away with juggling them around, performance may suffer as the coding effects marginally dwell and duration of the injection pulse. (Its like a factory fine tuning adjustment!) Just best to avoid mixing them up if you can.
      Regards
      Steve

  • From pstutcher on Mercedes Diesel Injector Advice - Sprinter and others

    I’ve researched thoroughly, but have not come across any advice on how to relieve the fuel rail pressure at the start of the disassembly process. Can anyone offer some help here?

    Thanks,
    Pete

    • Avatar photo

      From Steve Ball on Mercedes Diesel Injector Advice - Sprinter and others

      Hi Pete,

      Once the engine has been standing for a few minutes the pressure in the rail is residual. Residual because there is no flow or volume of diesel being pumped. Just place a rag over one of the injector unions and crack open the seal, after the initial release (notably hardly anything) it will be fine to work on the rail and associated components. The dangers of working on a pressurised CDI system are really when it is running and this should be avoided in all but the most precautionary of circumstances.

      All the best
      Steve

  • From Martin on Mercedes Diesel Injector Advice - Sprinter and others

    Thanks Steve, the Andy Bittenbinder report is excellent and strongly suggests that if good preparation is carried out then there is no need for the extra 90 degrees.

    I wonder if the 5 and 6 pot engines mentioned are both the in line rather than the more recent V6, are the part numbers the same for the V6?

    • Avatar photo

      From Steve Ball on Mercedes Diesel Injector Advice - Sprinter and others

      Hi Martin,
      This would suggest its the same ‘Kit’ that is hold down bolt, clamp and washer for all of the ranges shown (cant immediately see any not covered – one size fits all!) Specifically and including the OM642 (V6)

      Andy Bittenbinder did more work on the clamp bolt testing than I ever did in any testing! I suppose that is the reason I will always go with the one 90 degree tweak. There is proven, just not enough benefit to be gained by going the full nine yards – hence that 7Nm +90 has always been the procedure I have adopted and originally published here. Touch wood, had no failures thus far.
      All the best
      Steve

  • From Andrew Duffy on Poor First Gear Selection - Manual Gearbox Problem W639 Vito - Cure

    Hi I’ve got a 54 plate vito with a gear box that will go up the gears no problem and go down until I get to second. It will go in but I have to nearly snap the gear lever to get it. I’m going to try the ATF-U. Do you think the oil is my only problem ?. Hope to hear from you soon.

    • Avatar photo

      From Steve Ball on Poor First Gear Selection - Manual Gearbox Problem W639 Vito - Cure

      Hi Andrew,
      My first port of call would be to inspect the selector lever in the cab for wear in the ball and socket (Making sure it is not cracked) then look very carefully and see if any side to side play exists in the control cables. Adjusting the cables just slightly to compensate for any wear left to right could make all the difference in targeting the gear selector to the correct gate – especially 2nd. (reverse can usually be difficult too)

      There is a chance however that synchro wear is your problem, 3rd to 2nd specifically. You will only be able to fully decide this when you have checked the cable adjustment and perhaps changed the oil to ATF-U (not a complex or expensive job in either case). Hopefully one or the other will sort the problem.

      Could be worth a crawl under and inspect the selector cage pivots on the gearbox, checking the hinge on the right for wear and lack of lubrication.

      Let me know how you get on,
      All the best
      Steve

  • From Martin on Mercedes Diesel Injector Advice - Sprinter and others

    Extra thought,
    if you do choose to add the extra 90 degrees it may be worth considering new bolts, again.
    Only an extra few quids and pretty insignificant when you consider the effort involved.

  • From Martin on Mercedes Diesel Injector Advice - Sprinter and others

    I’ve been frequenting the MBO forum for many years, I am M80. Like here it has been a fantastic source of help for me. It is only recently that van owners have been contributing so my Vito questions were not getting much response, if any.
    As with any forum you need to be careful of the wannabe experts Like me perhaps), in general though the technical contributions are knowledgeable and mature.

    http://forums.mercedesclub.org.uk/showthread.php?t=71096&page=5

    Post 41 here is where I got my information.

  • From Martin on Mercedes Diesel Injector Advice - Sprinter and others

    A comprehensive reply Chris.
    I understand that at some later date MB have added to the procedure.
    7Nm + 90 degrees + 90 degrees.
    Clearly the extra 90 degrees would have a greater effect on the copper washer.
    I’m sure I will be sweating some while adding the latter 90. Trusting MB to know best is perhaps questionable as if they did know so much this black death would not be so common.
    I also drive a C320 CDI, that being the v block, and apparently the revised design has prevented that engine from suffering the same issue. Wouldn’t you think they would have revised the later 4 and 5 pots designs instead of just saying “tighten it more”?
    The wife drives the Gr Cherokee with the 2.7 5 pot (excellent engine), but if either of the 2 rear pots suffer this it’s head off to repair. Shame really she has a pretty head.

    Anyway, my intention is to grind the bottom of a removed stretch bolt flat, cut a groove in the thread, and use that as my cleaning tap. Of course being cautious not to compress any debri in the bottom of the hole (that could puncture the head) and not to bottom the bolt with any force.

    • From Chris Horton on Mercedes Diesel Injector Advice - Sprinter and others

      Hi Martin, thanks for that update re the tightening torque. In fact, it was the search for that obviously vital data that brought me to Steve’s excellent website in the first place.

      Steve, is that correct for the 108 engine, ie 7Nm plus 90 deg plus 90 deg? If so, could I (should I?) further tighten the bolts currently in my engine, or will the fact that they have been heated and cooled cause them to stretch too far?

      All the best,

      Chris Horton

      • Avatar photo

        From Steve Ball on Mercedes Diesel Injector Advice - Sprinter and others

        Hi Chris/Martin.

        The Honda washers are ‘softer’ (unmeasured science, but you can tell) and I have always consciously never bothered with the extra and last 90 degrees crank. Never had any trouble.

        Each 90 degree rotation past 7 Nm with a new clamp bolt and clean hole results in a further 0.3mm stretch bolt yield, so my view has always been – softer composition, less crush and a little less beads of sweat on the final swing of the wrench! (Those threads are a weakness) Correct spec by the book with thinner less malleable copper MB washers is 7Nm +90 +90.

        The full factual reference write up is here, I always have agreed with the final conclusion that offers this:

        Tightening the fresh hold down bolt and seal ring will produce the same clamping force (defined by seal ring crush thickness) regardless of which of the 2 torque specs are used.

        The desired residual bolt stress (to achieve essentially infinite cyclical fatigue life) is achieved by both specs but the 2X 90 spec does allow for less care and precision during the tightening procedure.

        Torque spec #1 (62in/lbs +90) is certainly less risky if contamination may be lurking at the bottom of the very deep blind bolt hole. I suspect it is also somewhat less risky if the aluminum threads are not in ‘as new’ condition.

        “Here at the Global Sprinter Research Center I am always eager to investigate Sprinter related technical issues.

        Group members have noticed that Mercedes Benz has a published torque spec for the injector hold down bolts that seemingly differs significantly from the long standing DC published specs as shown in DC workshop manuals as well as on the instruction sheets that DC at one time included with replacement injectors.

        The extended threaded shank length, 85.83mm long, 6.0mm dia., 8.8 grade, factory hold down bolt, hold down pawl and injector seal ring are identical part numbers for both the 5 cyl. and 6 cyl. engines.

        Using my ‘test’ 647 Sprinter cylinder head, which is permanently mounted to one of my work benches, I have recently performed tests related to hold down bolt torque.

        This dedicated ‘test’ cyl head has been quite useful in my repair tooling fabrication.

        As many of you know I have developed in-house tools and fixtures for removal of broken hold down bolts, repair to stronger than new stripped hold down threads, and various custom black death repair tools for my in-house use.

        This test head features my custom carbon steel hold down threads making it ideal for these hold down bolt torque experiments because data is not compromised by any aluminum thread deformation or failure.

        After careful measuring of bolt length (before and after torquing) and injector seat seal thickness to 0.01mm tolerance, and using a calibrated Snap-on electronic 1/4 inch drive torque wrench set to display in/lbs and accurate to 0.1 in/lbs, I have the following observations to report:

        TRIAL 1- A fresh, factory hold down bolt torqued to 62 in/lbs (approx 7 Nm) and then an additional 90 degrees, results in 0.08mm crush of a fresh factory seal ring.

        The Sprinter’s copper seat seal ring features a double convex cross section and the clamping force induced ‘crush’ creates narrow sealing flats on each side of the ring.

        Monitoring the bolt torque during the 90 degree rotation reveals a peak of 180-190 in/lbs before full 90 degrees is achieved and remains at this level all the way to 90 degrees. This peak/plateau signals bolt yield has occurred.

        TRIAL 2- A new seal ring and a fresh, factory hold down bolt torqued to 62 in/lbs. (approx. 7Nm) and then an additional 90 degrees X2 (FULL 180 degrees), results in the same 0.08mm crush of the seal ring as well as a steady 180-190 in/lbs torque reading during angle tightening.

        Being a stretch to yield, non-reuse, bolt it was not surprising to see permanent elongation. Elongation was approx. 0.30mm for each increment of 90 degrees of tightening rotation (after the 62 in/lb initial torque).

        TRIAL 3-A fresh hold down bolt tightened to failure. The bolt tolerated several additional 90 degree sequences PAST the initial 62 in/lbs and 2×90 degrees.

        It has previously been reported that fresh hold down bolts have failed when several group members had torqued to 62 in/lbs and then 180 degrees (mistaking 1/2 turn for 90 degrees).

        I now suspect this occurred because of bolt bottoming in the base of the blind bore. Bottoming can occur because of debris at bottom of the blind hole.

        CONCLUSION:

        Tightening the fresh hold down bolt and seal ring will produce the same clamping force (defined by seal ring crush thickness) regardless of which of the 2 torque specs are used.

        The desired residual bolt stress (to achieve essentially infinite cyclical fatigue life) is achieved by both specs but the 2X 90 spec does allow for less care and precision during the tightening procedure.

        Torque spec #1 (62in/lbs +90) is certainly less risky if contamination may be lurking at the bottom of the very deep blind bolt hole. I suspect it is also somewhat less risky if the aluminum threads are not in ‘as new’ condition.

        Be sure you test your cyl head’s bolt hole threads by using a wire brushed used hold down bolt with an indexing paint mark, turning in by hand while counting turns, to assure threads are clean and bore is unobstructed to full depth.

        This is especially critical when performing black death surgery.
        Andy Bittenbinder ”


        All the best
        Steve

        • From Chris Horton on Mercedes Diesel Injector Advice - Sprinter and others

          It’s not clear who wrote this text above – was it you, Steve Ball, or Andy Bittenbinder? Either way, it’s brilliant. Proper, no-nonsense information, written by an engineer for those of us who aren’t but who do have at least an idea why accurate torque wrenches are so essential when repairing modern vehicles.

          • Avatar photo

            From Steve Ball on Mercedes Diesel Injector Advice - Sprinter and others

            Hi Chris,
            This was Andy Bittenbinder’s research and write-up. He is a Porsche factory trained engineer who now has his own auto business in the States, specialising in Sprinter vehicles and conversions (RVs). I can’t think of any better background expertise to be able to offer and qualify this kind of good quality reliable information on Sprinter/Mercedes based issues. 😉
            Regards
            Steve

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